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-   -   Shotgunning this Sunday part deux (http://www.expeditionexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1060)

sheki June 25th, 2007 10:20 AM

Shotgunning this Sunday part deux
John and I are planning to go to Moore n Moore this Sunday July 1st. It'll be in the afternoon probably around 2ish.

Anyone else interested?

traveltoad June 25th, 2007 11:06 AM


johnlee June 25th, 2007 11:48 AM

I'm in.

And, Won and Han, if you want to go shotgunning with us this Sunday, you are more than welcome to borrow one of my guns.

parantaeyang June 25th, 2007 01:19 PM


I will let you know later this week if I can go. Make your plans without me for now.

hanchung June 25th, 2007 11:15 PM

thanks for the offer john, i'll take you up on that later. i can't do it this sunday.

johnlee July 2nd, 2007 04:36 PM

Won and Han, you guys missed out. We had a good time yesterday.

It was just David and I:

David shot his new Beretta:

I shot my K-20:

Here I am on Station One:

Station One had a high trap shot going straight out and a falling right-to-left crosser that launched high off an adjacent hill and flew quickly.

It was baking hot yesterday. Here's a view of the parking lot from around Station Four or Five:

The place was nearly empty because of the heat.

Hot weather means sweaty hands. And the guns were baking hot from being shot and also from sitting in the broiling sun. The guns were almost too hot to touch. Such conditions mean rusty guns. You can see the rust starting to form on my K-20's barrels:

This is the type of rust that just wipes off with an oily rag. But you must wipe down your weapons when you are done shooting or the rust will be permanent. I even wiped down my K-20 again once I got home.

Pat Moore had set up one of his infamous 100-yard crossers:

I pulled a target to see what it looked like, but didn't even take a shot. Imagine a black dot flying across the sky 100 yards away and you get a feel for what this target looked like.

David does some imagery before he calls for the target:

You'll see a lot of golfers and shotgunners do the imagery thing before they go into action. It's a very powerful tool.

David makes ready and calls for the target:

And bang:

Rear view of David shooting:

Here I am on the same station:

David and Aaron are really good at getting pics of the clays in flight. No matter how hard I try, I can never seem to capture the clays in flight.

That's a high left-to-right crosser. You can see the amount of lead I'm applying. It looks like too much. No wonder I got skunked on that target.

Here I set up for the opposite target on the same station:

This was a looping right-to-left crosser and flew very close to the station. This shot shows how a right-handed person must shoot around the post:

I got skunked on this target as well.

David sets up for another target:

Here I am shooting on the same station (I think):

I was reminded of Overland Journal yesterday:

David prepares to open his Beretta:

David reloads:

Note the incorrect date on the Green Lantern. Rookie.

Then David sets up for another shot:

Note the ShekiPlugs. The left earplug is blue:

Here I am during a mount on the same station:

And a rear-view shot on the same station:

This station was trippy because both targets flew close to one another, but one was presented hollow side toward the shooter. Thus, one target was orange and the other was black. Of course devilish Pat set up the targets so that they would cross in mid flight, confusing the shooter even more.

A view of our trucks in the parking lot, taken from the top of Moore N Moore:

This spot also has a great view of Angeles Ranges' rifle range:

The targets at the very bottom are on the 50-yard line. The first berm is 100 yards. The next two berms are 200 yards and 300 yards, respectively. Angeles allows paper out to 200 yards on weekends and 300 yards on weekdays. Angeles also has fixed steel targets out to over 1000 yards.

David was stylin:

David patterned his Beretta on Moore N Moore's pattern plate:

Pat put up a new sign for the pattern plate:

David greases the plate after his first two shots:

Then shoots another pair:

David even joined Moore N Moore yesterday:

Afterward David and I hit a Starbucks in the Valley to cool off with some AC and those blended Frappucino drinks.

Then it was Asanebo time. Yesterday I tried Asanebo's broiled king crab leg for the first time. It was succulent. I was in heaven. Even the spicy king crab claw tempura that came after the leg, which is usually kick ass, seemed like a disappointment. And the crab claw tempura is one of my favorites.

Thank you, David, for a very relaxing day and a great time. Asanebo is on me the next time we hit it.

Scott Brady July 3rd, 2007 07:28 AM

Thanks for the report John. The Overland Journal team has plans for an afternoon of Trap and Skeet in Prescott the weekend of the 14th. Group editing of the Summer issue in the morning, time at the range in the afternoon....

johnlee July 3rd, 2007 08:22 AM


Have a great time.

JSQ July 3rd, 2007 10:48 AM

Moore N Moore looks sweet.

Even if it's hot and far away I think Tom and I will have to meet you guys there next time. Triple B is getting stale.

That whole rusty gun thing doesn't happen when you wear gloves you know...

traveltoad July 3rd, 2007 03:24 PM

Jack do you still go up to Santa Clarita for work at all?

JSQ July 3rd, 2007 03:41 PM

I do.
I'm probably going next week.
Is Moore N Moore near to Santa Clarita, Castaic or Valencia?

traveltoad July 9th, 2007 09:19 AM

M n M is right near the 5/210 junction... and is about 10 min from my work.

If you are up there let me know and maybe we can shoot a little after work.

JSQ July 9th, 2007 11:06 AM

Let's do it!

What about Wednesday afternoon?

I'll be hot and tired after work, but I bet I can be done with work by 1 or 2pm.

traveltoad July 9th, 2007 12:51 PM

For this Wed it is a maybe. I have a meeting downtown and I don't know when it will finish.

i would have to guess it will be done 2ish... and I could be there 3ish. But I can't be sure.

EDIT: My meeting has been changed, so this Wednesday may work after all!

Scott Brady July 15th, 2007 08:08 PM

The Overland Journal team took a break from final edits on the Summer issue to dust a few clays.

The most "modern" of the shotguns used was Jonathan's 90 year young Webley & Scott 16-bore side-by-side.

I plan on going again on Thursday to try out my "new" side-by-side 12-bore. The Remington 11-87 Sporting Clays will likely remain NIB...

A few more images:

A fun shoot and beautiful weather. It was also my first visit to the Prescott Trap and Skeet Club (they also have a three position sporting clay circuit). More pictures next time -- sorry for the lack of watch porn :D

traveltoad July 16th, 2007 06:59 AM

You'll be forgiven if there is more gun porn!!

sheki September 12th, 2007 10:33 AM

Jack and I went to Moore n Moore yesterday afternoon, we arrived at 3pm only to find that they close at 3pm. One of the instructors, Dan Reeves, overheard Jack mention he was up from San Diego and felt bad. Dan wasn't in a hurry to leave and sit in rush hour traffic on the 405, so he told us he'd stay and let us shoot if we wanted, of course we took him up on his offer. Dan was a real nice guy and ended up giving us a free hour lesson while taking us around the course.

They have a new stand called "Argentina", it is a random selection of 27 clays thrown in pairs with an 8 second delay between pairs to allow for reloading. It was pretty awesome! Dan was very helpful in assisting me with my left eye dominance problem as well as timing and leading the clays. He mentioned a rather impressive resume and informed us that he was world champion twice. He also mentioned something about a youtube.com file... so I searched.

JSQ September 12th, 2007 10:42 AM

Dan is quite the character and David and I had a great time shooting with him. It wasn't what we had planned on, but it was a great experience.

Here's a bit more about Dan:

About Dan Reeves:
Dan is a shooting coach, performer, and world-champion competitor in the clay target sports. Dan set, held and still holds many world records for his marksmanship. Dan has performed shooting exhibitions all over the world including the Hippodrome and Chambord Castle in Paris France; He has also performed Hip Shooting Exhibitions in Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, Belgium, Germany, Scotland and England. Dan focuses on personalizing his instruction to each shooter, paying attention to how they learn, and what they want to learn.

He employs teaching techniques for a quality learning experience - your achievement is what's important.

Dan works with all ages, from 10 years old to the senior shooter, and disciplines, including recreational and competitive clay target shooting, group/corporate events, rehabilitative shooting for sight and physically challenged shooters, and law enforcement and military technique, as well as upland gamebird hunting.

Many shooters have said they learned more from Dan in one lesson than in a lifetime of shooting. If it involves a shotgun and you want to improve, give Dan a call at 310 371 3518 or email him at danreeves@att.net as he is available by appointment only.

7 Days a week. Appointment only. Dan can schedule lessons outside Moore N Moore's normal business hours, but if you'd like to know our business hours, click here.

What do lessons cost?:
$75.00 per hour, two-hour minimum. Please contact Dan regarding group events, competition support and for more info. Targets and Ammo are not included in this price. For more information on prices, click here.

Dan Reeves:

Dan is a shotgun shooting coach, performer, and past ďAll AmericanĒ World Champion competitor in the clay target sports. Retired from competition since 1992, Dan was 3-times the captain of TEAM USA in world competition. He has set, held, and still holds world records for his marksmanship. With his live performances, video instruction, TV and radio appearances (three seasons of ESPNís Star Shot series, twice on Thatís Incredible, and various other cable shooting shows) he has been seen by millions of people all over the world performing his shotgun shooting exhibitions.

Today, Dan is known for his coaching skills with shotgun shooters in the recreational field, competitive arena, and Olympic disciplines. He is a master at analyzing your individual shooting challenges and making adjustments that improve your shooting ability.

Dan is a combat veteran and understands the tactical environment as well. His instruction to Law Enforcement and Military reflect what tactical shooters need to enhance their survivability in a life-threatening engagement.

JSQ September 12th, 2007 10:51 AM

One of the nice things about shooting with dan privately after hours is that we weren't limited to the shooting from the stands. At one point Dan walked us out on the hillside so that the targets were incoming in a fashion similar (though not as extreme) as the clip above.
Although the shot he was coaching us on was one that, as a hunter, I would studiously avoid it was an interesting lesson in lead and trajectory. Also, I was much more comfortable shooting standing on the slope than in the booth.

Dan is a crack up.
He talks A LOT (and this is coming from me) and he sort of looks like Burt Reynolds. He cracks lots of jokes and he has all sorts of not-so-tall-tales to tell about his shooting days.

ronward September 12th, 2007 11:08 AM

I need a lesson like that.

sheki September 12th, 2007 11:22 AM

After he helped me with my eye dominance issue and told me how much lead I would need, my shooting improved tremendously. I am so appreciative of his help I'll probably do a private lesson with him to see what else he has to show me and just as a thank you for yesterday.

He also gave Jack and I those rubber bracelets, similar to the Lance Armstrong one, that had some shooting slogan on it. I haven't looked at it long enough to notice what it said other than it was written in yellow on a green camo band.

He is quite the character.

traveltoad September 12th, 2007 12:32 PM

Did he tell you to keep you finger ON the trigger?

JSQ September 12th, 2007 01:35 PM

He didn't do any of that business, but he did point a gun at David's head to demonstrate some point about target accquisition and bbl speed.

I wasn't too thrilled with that part.

He told David he was going to do it, so I left it up to David to allow it or stop it. David can do as he chooses, but there is no way I would let someone point any firearm at me under any circumstances.

Overall his shooting instruction was pretty clayed-out in the sense that the stated goal is to teach you to learn every target and hit every target with practice in order to achieve perfect scores. That means all sorts of varying adaptations in mount and techniques to address unusual targets. For me, the principals of lead and gauging targets are very relevant, but tweaks like smudging one of your glasses lenses or using a high-fulcrum mount are as irrelevant as high gun or safety off. I don't/can't hunt that way, so I won't be using those techniques to shoot clays even if it nets me a higher score.

Dan described the limitations of instinctive/reflexive shooters who could shoot consistently at totally unfamiliar targets but who could only manage 50% if they did well or 60% if they were lucky. However, that style and those percentages are an admirable goal for myself. A 2 to 1 wingshooter on wild birds is very good. Particularly flushed birds rather than decoying or pass shooting. I can learn basic rules of trajectory and gunning from clays but I want to maintain a reflexive instinct in my shooting because birds never fly the same way twice and if I come home with only twice as many empty shells as birds, I'm going to be more than satisfied.

I have only a basic knowledge of shotgunning, but I do have a clear understanding of what my goals and what my limitations are. It's hard for me to take clays instruction and try to accept and absorb the relevant teaching while dismissing the bits that won't be helpful. It doesn't make me the best student, but I'm confident that I can steer myself in a good direction without missing the point and I was very happy to have the opportunity to learn.

I think Dan would make a good instructor, because he's knowledgeable AND he's a lot of fun.

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