Thread: 9mm vs.45
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Old March 24th, 2005, 09:41 AM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
Originally Posted by greghirst
Anyway, John's comment regarding the P7 not being available in anything other than 9mm isn't quite true if you count the P7M10. In fact, that pic above looks to have a barrel with lands/grooves rather than a polygonal bore so M10? The M10 feels quite a bit heavier to me than even the P7M13. However, the extra weight feels right when you factor in the heavier recoil of the .40 cal.

I didn't say the P7 wasn't available in anything but 9mm. Rather, I said, "I wish HK made a usable P7 in .40 or 10mm or .45", with the key word being usable. I don't think the M10 is usable. Sure, it goes bang every time you pull the trigger and it's eminently reliable, but the M10's slide is very tall and bulky:

The great weight of the M10's slide negates one of the key advantages of the P7's design: lightweight slide jostling the weapon less as the slide reciprocates forward and backward.

I remember when HK unveiled the prototype M10. It was just a converted M13 and it looked just like an M13. I was really excited about this pistol. Then HK unveiled the production M10. It was ridiculous.

That pic is definitely an M8. The rifling is pronounced for illustration purposes but the pistol is definitely an M8. The slide is too low and the rounds too skinny to be an M10, and the handle is too short to be an M13. The lanyard loop on the butt negates the possibility of it being a P7 or a PSP. It has a gas system so it's not an M7 or a K3. So the only thing left is the M8.

Originally Posted by greghirst
In reference to the P220/225/226/228/229 series "suffering" from a high bore line I was telling Jack that I could just as easily argue that the P7 "suffers" from a low bore axis. I grew up with a J.P. Sauer & Sohn .22 cal western-style revolver and a Browning Hi-Power as my first handguns as a boy and the P228 "feels" right to me and has very natural pointability for me. The P7 feels to me like I always have to bring it up further than feels natural to aim. However, after firing the P7 for awhile I start feeling more natural with it.

LOL, that's an interesting way to frame it. Too low of a bore axis. That's a new one. I suppose one could be too rich or too good looking or too skilled or too whatever as well. This reminds me of when Blaser came out with a perfected straight-pull bolt action, traditionalists were poo-pooing it because the bolt movement was unfamiliar and somehow less desirable than the traditional 90-degree rotation and bolt throw found on Mausers.

The Hi-Power actually as a very low bore line. I think it that with the exception of the P7, the Hi-Power has a bore axis as low as any other 9mm. It's about as low as the bore axis on the Glock, and it's considerably lower than the bore axis on the 226. The 226's bore axis is ridiculously high.

Originally Posted by greghirst
As far as muzzle flip goes, come one-it's a 9mm!

I agree that the 9mm doesn't produce a lot of recoil. This is true in any 9mm, but it's especially true in the P7. But my comment about the P226's poor shooting characteristics was merely in response to Jack's comment about the 226 being the best pistol for delivering hammers and controlled pairs. I had to crack up at this one, because I think the 226 is actually one of the worst pistols for this.

Originally Posted by greghirst
As far as the .45 goes there's no handgun I truly like available in this caliber. The P220 is a full size sidearm and I would prefer a compact .45 (I don't like the USP) If the P7 was available in this I might be one of it's worshippers.

Whaaaaaaaaaaat? What about the 1911?
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