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  #1  
Old March 16th, 2005, 12:40 PM
utahdog2003 utahdog2003 is offline
James Reed
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: FL
Posts: 50
9mm vs. 45

question...

I'm making a new investment. I know the make, I know the model. Between these two caliber, what's your preference?

Last edited by utahdog2003 : April 14th, 2010 at 01:47 PM. Reason: tired of seeing my lame joke live on for all eternity
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  #2  
Old March 16th, 2005, 01:32 PM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,628
You can't tease us like that! What's the make? the model?
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  #3  
Old March 16th, 2005, 06:31 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,153
What make and model you thinking about? I ask because you can't look at a caliber in the abstract. You have to look at the gun/caliber combo. For example, a 9mm in a P7 is a nice choice but a 1911 chambered in 9mm is a joke.
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  #4  
Old March 17th, 2005, 07:38 AM
utahdog2003 utahdog2003 is offline
James Reed
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: FL
Posts: 50
sorry fellas....HK USP

any experiences with the USP that you would like to relate would be interesting as well.
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  #5  
Old March 17th, 2005, 09:30 AM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,153
I like the P2000 much better than the USP. The USP ain't got no soul.
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  #6  
Old March 17th, 2005, 10:15 AM
utahdog2003 utahdog2003 is offline
James Reed
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: FL
Posts: 50
is that a pref based on 'friend of a friend let me shoot his at the range' experience, '500 rounds through my own animal' experience, or do you like it because the website says its for 'European Agencies'?

Getting a little stingy with me John. I just read through an encyclopedia on golf balls in another thread...where's the tech?

Come Come...elucidate your thoughts...
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  #7  
Old January 5th, 2007, 01:36 PM
utahdog2003 utahdog2003 is offline
James Reed
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: FL
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
I like the P2000 much better than the USP. The USP ain't got no soul.

You cats brought this thread back from the dead, so I'll give an update. My USP has no soul.

Thank You

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  #8  
Old December 20th, 2009, 06:10 PM
stu454 stu454 is offline
Stuart Ivie
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,177
My dad gave me two guns for Christmas today.

I'm excited and need to tell some folks who'll understand what a kick this is for me.

Neither is out of the oridinary, but I'll always treasure them. The first is a vanilla Browning Citori Hunter in 20 gauge. Fixed chokes, blue wear and a little touch of pitting on the rib. Again, nothing special; except to me as this was the first shotgun that I recall firing.

The second is the real jewel; a five screw M&P .38 pre M10 in 95+% condition that my grandfather bought new in the early fifties. Matching stocks, beautiful deep blue and a few very light scratches from sitting in a drawer. Bore and chambers are perfect. Made between '52 and '55 per Standard Catalog.

My dad hasn't given me a gun since I was 21, so I'm very happy and thankful.

I'll try to get some pics but the lighting in the house stinks and I'm a mediocre hand with a camera.

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  #9  
Old December 20th, 2009, 11:43 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,490
That's awesome.
Great gifts.
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  #10  
Old December 21st, 2009, 01:53 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
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Score!

Congratulations on your Browning and Smith.

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  #11  
Old December 21st, 2009, 06:00 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,153
Some friends and I hit Angeles again yesterday for some fun. Yesterday was extra fun for some reason. Perhaps it was the perfect weather for shooting (72*, no wind, and overcast). Perhaps it was because of the great variety of weapons we had on hand. I'm not sure exactly why it so was so much fun, but it was. I actually took my camera yesterday, which is pretty rare during shooting. And I’m glad I took some pics.

My friend Jeff's weapons included a Winchester 52 target and one of his ARs:


Jeff loads up his Winchester 52:


Ammo was Federal Gold Medal Match:


Jeff shoots for group at 100 yards:


Jeff's groups yesterday were hovering around 1". That's superb for a .22 Long Rifle at that range.

This is a really neat rifle. These military target rifles are always interesting, and this one is superbly accurate and has a glass-rod trigger. Winchester also made various sporter Model 52s and commercial target 52s.

I love the rear sight:


Markings on the rear sight:


View through the blinder:


The front sight:


Love the concentric circles. The front sight insert is an aperture rather than a post. This is the first weapon I've ever shot with an aperture front sight. It feels weirdo at first but seems to work pretty well.

Markings on the front sight:


His AR:


Jeff has several ARs, but they are all rifle-length and they are all direct-impingement. Jeff is an AR purist. He registered several ARs before the CA ban. This one is a Bushmaster A2 with ACOG sight mounted to the carry handle. This weapon looks unimpressive, but it easily shoots MOA with Jeff's handloads.

Jeff also brought his Springfield:


Close-up of the Springfield's wing safety and flanged striker:


Close-up of the rear sight:


You can see the charger slot on the front of the bridge. Another angle:


Magazine cut-off:




Muzzle markings:


I don't know Springfields, so I don't know the significance of the "2 44". I doubt it's the year but it might be. But the "S C" stands for Smith-Corona:


Jeff puts the front sight hood back on for transport and storage:


Like Jack with his Garand, Jeff likes the USGI web sling on his Springfield:


Jeff understands the loop sling and owns several of them, so I don't know why he likes the web sling on his Springfield. I think it's crying out for a loop sling.

Jeff shoots his Springfield from standing:


I got to shoot Jeff's Springfield:


Ammo was Jeff's .30-06 handloads (next to some PMC .223 for scale):


The Springfield is an excellent target rifle. The aperture sights on this weapon are excellent. Unfortunately, I pulled a shot:


I think the flier was my first shot. I've seen Jeff shoot 1" groups with this weapon with match handloads, so I know it can shoot. I just couldn't shoot it. This Springfield is semi-brutal to shoot. It's light and has a steel butt, so it's a little punishing to shoot. A better shooter can shoot this weapon very well, but I can't.

Jeff also brought his K98:




Jeff used to work at Federal Ordnance and I think he picked up his rifle for $40.

Jeff's K98 is marked "tgf":


I don't know Mausers well so I don't know what factory tgf stands for. Jeff said it was Czech if I recall.

The rear sight:


2000 meters! At one time, the smokeless rifle was employed as an area target weapon at very long ranges. These sights are nearly unusable for me. The rear sight notch is a V and the front sight post is an inverted V.

Buttstock marking:


I don't know if the marks are "V77" or some other characters. Love the brass screw.

Love the stamped bottom metal:


G98s and early K98s has forged and machined bottom metals. As the war progressed, the Germans had to produce the K98s in greater quantities and had to speed up production. So they switched from forged and machined components to stamped components. But their stampings are really nice. They don't even look like stampings. This weapon was probably built using leftover German tooling from the war.

The follower is stamped as well:


Feeding was flawless and the bolt was very slick for a Mauser 98. Note the charger and thumb slots. I love that.

The distinctive K98 steel butt:


Muzzle detail of Jeff's K98:


I got a chance to shoot this wonderful weapon:


You can see the beautiful color of this K98's stock. It looks even nicer in person.

Jeff's 8x57 handloads (next to a PMC .223 round):


And the recipe:


This rifle/ammo combination was substantially more pleasant to shoot than the Springfield. My "group" was huge though. It was like 7" or 8" @ 100 yards. I think it's the sights. I couldn't use them. Jeff regularly gets 2" groups with this weapon and ammo, so it's not the gun.
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  #12  
Old December 21st, 2009, 06:04 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,153
My friend Steve brought his PSG1 and Walther 2000 clones:


Steve scopes out his groups with the PSG1 clone:


The scope is not correct for a PSG1. It's a Schmidt & Bender off another rifle. The PSG1 had a Hensoldt 6x42. Steve has two surplus PSG1 scopes in for reconditioning and plans to put one of them onto his PSG clone when he gets them back.

Ammo was Federal match:


The Walter 2000 clone is a dressed up Ruger 10-22. This particular weapon is chambered in .17 Mach 2:


This is a .22 Long Rifle necked down to .177. These are beautiful rounds. They're dinky small but they look more scale than the usual rimfire rounds. Loading these rounds into magazines is difficult, as the points are sharp. The points don't look that sharp in the photo, but they're quite sharp and it's difficult to load magazines.

Steve also brought his Daewoo:


This particular weapon was imported by Kimber of Oregon. This weapon is a blend between the Kalashnikov and Stoner designs. The gas system is Kalashnikov, and the bolt head, magazine, layout, controls, materials, etc. are Stoner. The weapon handles like a Stoner and feels like a Kalashikov during firing. It's sort of like a Kel-Tec, but built to military standards.

Close-up of the receiver marking:

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  #13  
Old December 25th, 2009, 01:10 AM
hanchung hanchung is offline
wsixhan
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: South Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,182
Tuesday was range day for my 9mm 340 and pickup day for my Keltec SU-16B. I had with me 9x21mm, 9x23mm(Steyr), 9x19mm(Luger) and .38 Special. I probably shot about a little over 100 rounds altogether on the snub.
I think this conversion is proving to be legit after all.

Here are views of the used cases… from the left 9x19mm, 9x21mm, 9x23mm.









A while back I had posted issues of 9x19mm's tipping and one .38SPL split case that wouldn't extract from cylinder. Tipping is still present not only on the 9x19mm but on both other variants.
Maybe 1 out of 7 tips?

If you recall, we had this last time at the range...






Today, all the 9x19mm's were happy w/ not a single stuck in the cylinder due to splits or excessive bulge. The Lugers were flawless.






The 9x21mm's were also pretty much flawless.









As well as the Steyr's...although these cases came out way more stained than the others.






As you can see, all cases did bulge but not excessively. I had one 9x21mm case sticky had to push out w/ a pen and it wasn't a split case like last time.



Lastly the .38 SPL. No problems here either.






Oh... btw... here's my new KelTec SU-16B. I bought it from Shooter's Vault in Phoenix, AZ for $550 brand new. John's SU-16AC has been flawless thus far, lets hope the Bravo model does the same.























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  #14  
Old December 21st, 2009, 06:41 PM
clalor clalor is offline
Christian Lalor
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 148
For those of you who own or have owned Glocks, would you recommend them to someone as their first gun? I'm looking to buy my first gun early next year for learning/range shooting and personal protection. Obviously, I'll have to hold and hopefully fire a few different makes & models before I make my decision.
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  #15  
Old December 21st, 2009, 07:11 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,153
This is funny. Peep the American Rifleman write-up on the SIG 516:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webc...137-sig516.pdf

Look at the bolt carrier on page 5 of 6 of that pdf.

That carrier looks remarkably familiar:


So not only is the "516" a rip-off of the HK416 name, but the bolt carrier is an LWRC product.
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  #16  
Old December 21st, 2009, 07:34 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by clalor
For those of you who own or have owned Glocks, would you recommend them to someone as their first gun? I'm looking to buy my first gun early next year for learning/range shooting and personal protection. Obviously, I'll have to hold and hopefully fire a few different makes & models before I make my decision.


I'm fond of telling people that you have to have a good reason not to buy a Glock.

The Glock works flawlessly for pros and rookies alike. A novice won't be encumbered by it and a experienced shooter won't be held back.
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  #17  
Old December 22nd, 2009, 07:15 AM
pbtakacs pbtakacs is offline
peter takacs
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Maple Valley, WA
Posts: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by clalor
I'm looking to buy my first gun early next year for learning/range shooting and personal protection..

I think you are headed in the the right direction. Over the years I have started using each of my pistols for distinctly different reasons. I have a G21 which over time has become simply massive to me. I have smaller hands and the inherent structure of the Glock made this pistol seem even larger. That being said I can shoot it very well and use it regularly at the range and for home defense (surefire x200 on the rail).

For CWP use I employ the G26 and P7M8 which are both fantastic pistols. The P7M8 is not for everyone, and people who have shot it think I am crazy for carrying it. That's fine with me as frankly some of my friends don't know shit about cool shit anyway. Due to its design, it's like carrying a larger 9mm which also allows me to shoot with it extraordinarily well.

As Jack stated earlier, you really do need a reason not to buy a Glock. Their simplistic nature coupled with their durability and pricing make it a easy decision. None of that will matter however if you don't like shooting it. So try a variety and see what feels best to you.

My suggestions would be...

G17/22, USP.45, USP Compacts more for range/home.
G19/26 HK P2000SK, P7M8 carry.
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  #18  
Old December 22nd, 2009, 10:03 PM
sheki sheki is offline
David Shechter
KC2PFB
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by clalor
For those of you who own or have owned Glocks, would you recommend them to someone as their first gun? I'm looking to buy my first gun early next year for learning/range shooting and personal protection. Obviously, I'll have to hold and hopefully fire a few different makes & models before I make my decision.

Yes, it was/is my first pistol and I wouldn't get anything else. I've shot a few others and still prefer my G19. I did have an issue recently where it was jamming on the last round in the mag. This happened to all my mags. John and Ho spent about 30 min with me trying to trouble shoot it but in the end we couldn't figure it out. I called Glock USA, they were extremely helpful. They assured me they'd solve the problem no matter what and first suggested replacing the feeders on all my mags with a newer style. Glock sent them out at their expense, Ho helped me take apart my mags and replacing the part was very simple. This did solve the problem; otherwise, I would have had to send it to Glock USA. I was told they'd need 5 weeks with the gun to go through it, trouble shoot, repair and test. In a nut shell it's an amazing firearm with equally amazing customer service. With all this talk about the G26 I'll probably go pick one up in a few weeks.

The Glock has got my vote and I'd recommend it to someone without a qualm. It does really come down to how it feels in your hand.
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  #19  
Old December 24th, 2009, 08:04 AM
stu454 stu454 is offline
Stuart Ivie
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,177
Reading this thread has rekindled some serious HK love.

My only problem with HKs was keeping them. Being a broke college student in the 90's with little financial discipline caused me to part with several good weapons that I should have kept.

Three P7's, one M8, a USP Compact and a 91 have all slipped though my dumb little fingers. And those were just the HK's.

Having a gun trader as my firearms mentor didn't help either. I would go through guns like some guys went through girlfriends. Oddly, some of the reasons for discarding one crossed over to the other: it was too expensive to keep, it hurt when you used it, it was unreliable, too big, too small.

Without noticing, I have turned into a Smith and Wesson man. Of the nine firearms that I currently own, five are from Springfield.

Only two were involuntary acquisitions. An early 50's M&P .38 Spl that my dad gave me for Christmas and an M40-1 Centennial that was given to a good friend for retirement. He was the trader mentioned earlier. True to form, he got bored with the Lemon Squeezer and made me a Corleone offer.

The other three are a first year .44 Magnum or pre 29 with a 4" barrel, a 5944 (DAO, blue slide and aluminum frame) and a 3953.

The 3953 is a great carry pistol; light and flat with 9 rounds available.



This is a stock photo but it is configured the same as mine with the early 90's flash-chromed hammer and trigger.

The lack of an external safety results in a very flat pistol. The frame is aluminum and the slide is stainless steel. While it doesn't possess the charisma of a P7 it does have its own Yankee charm that I find endearing.
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  #20  
Old December 24th, 2009, 09:49 AM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,153

Quote:
Afghan soldiers during military training at a Turkish commando training center in Egirdir, Isparta in southwestern Turkey, Friday, Dec. 18, 2009. Dozens of Afghan troops are undergoing training on explosives, mountain climbing and guerrilla warfare at a Turkish commando training center. Turkey, NATO's sole Muslim member, has refused to send additional troops to Afghanistan for combat operations but said it would increase training of Afghan security forces. (AP)
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  #21  
Old September 5th, 2010, 12:01 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by utahdog2003
question...

I'm making a new investment. I know the make, I know the model. Between these two caliber, what's your preference?

Just for the hell of it I decided to try changing my answer to this old question. I'm with John that most guns are best suited to specific calibers. I like that my Luger P08 is 9mm and I think my Glocks are great in .40 S&W. So if I want a .45ACP I guess it has to be a 1911.


A little while ago I picked up this Smith & Wesson Gunsite 1911 to try out as a carry gun and to shoot in IDPA matches. In a lot of ways it's somewhat heretical to have a scandium-framed 1911 made by a revolver company, but I wanted the pistol to be "practical" so this is where I ended up. I doubt John Browning is rolling over in his grave on this one considering what goes on in IPSC.

The Gunsite 1911 makes for a nice defensive pistol. The Commander sized 1911 carries very nicely and weight with the new materials isn't bad. The slide is stainless so it's not featherweight but it's considerably less than a Government size all-steel gun. The gun was purportedly designed with features spec'ed by Gunsite although it's hardly a Jeff Cooper pistol. It's also not really anything like the 1911s that used to be put together on site in Paulden, but the name is pretty well whored out now and there's also a Colt Gunsite 1911. That said, it's hard to argue with the list of features that the S&W Gunsite 1911 has. They're all nice touches.

The whole gun has been "de-horned" for concealed carry and it's really smooth. Unlike a lot of 1911s which can be like cheese graters on your hands the S&W Gunsite has a nice melted chocolate bar look to it.


The pistol comes with the Gunsite raven emblazoned on a number of parts including the stocks. These are the Wiley Clapp "tacical oval" stocks and make for a nice firing grip. Not ultra thin, but not too fat either.


The mainspring housing is aggressively checkered and the beaver-tail grip safety protrudes prominently.


The frontsrap is deeply grooved and the bottom of the trigger guard is cut high.


Sights are Novak Lo-Mount rear and a brass bead front.
There are also forward slide serrations.


The thumb safety is not ambidextrous but is extended.


Originally the pistol came with a solid long trigger as pictured on the S&W site, but I swapped it out for a short one from Cylinder & Slide and did a basic trigger job while I had the pistol apart. The break is very crisp and very light now. I polished all the contact points in the trigger and sear and "boosted" the hammer.


I also switched to Wilson Combat magazines. Tom has these same mags for his Kimber and I like them a lot. They're 8-rounders with a small aluminum pad. The bumper sticks out just far enough from the magwell that you can strip the magazine either by pinching or by dragging a spare magazine down the frontstrap.


In addition to all the little birdies all of the S&W Gunsite 1911s have a serial number that starts with "FSPXXXX". Aaron could probably guess that stands for "Front Site Press".


More importantly, the pistol features Smith's external extractor. My big problem with carrying a 1911 rather than playing with it as a toy is that they all seem to be Type 3 machines. The extractor is weak and because it's only a tensile spring you really can't practice malfunctions with it for risk of getting ...malfunctions. Supposedly this external extractor solves those problems. So far so good on my pistol.


For gunleather I went with the Galco "Avenger" and DMC which John ordered for me.


I'm really happy with this combo. It suits the thin profile of the 1911 and single stack magazines and everything rides nice and close to the body.


It's an interesting combo to have such big bullets coming out of such a thin gun. It's the heart of the 1911 appeal.


The only problem for me is how few of those bullets there are. Now that my carry tag-team is all Smith & Wesson the round count dropped dramatically. When I paired the 442 with the Glock 23 I had 57 rounds on me. With the 1911 it's down to 40.


The two go together nicely though.


And the full carry load-out is very doable.


So far I'm pretty happy. I've carried the 1911 a lot and I've shot it in a few IDPA matches. The trigger is great but it isn't the easiest gun to shoot. The light weight and short overall length make it pretty snappy. On the plus side the ergonomics are great for my small hands and it's been reliable and fun to shoot. And at least to my eye, it's not a bad looking gun.

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  #22  
Old September 5th, 2010, 01:00 AM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,290
Sweet.

However, I prefer the double diamond stocks if I were to ever pick up a 1911.

I still love my P9S in .45ACP. Remember, the original Luger caliber was 7.65 and the first Glock was the 17 in 9mm.
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  #23  
Old September 5th, 2010, 01:11 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by greghirst
Sweet.

However, I prefer the double diamond stocks if I were to ever pick up a 1911.

I still love my P9S in .45ACP. Remember, the original Luger caliber was 7.65 and the first Glock was the 17 in 9mm.

Not everybody gets it right the first time. In fact it's quite rare. The defining or perfected iteration isn't always in the introductory caliber. Consider the 1911. An evolution of the Model 1900 it began life in .38ACP. I don't hear anyone arguing that the Model 1911 should have kept that chambering.
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  #24  
Old September 5th, 2010, 01:23 AM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,290
Agreed.

That's why I don't want to limit to linking a specific caliber to a model/method of operation. I happen to like the big and slow .45ACP with the roller-delayed operation.
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  #25  
Old September 6th, 2010, 09:40 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,153
We had another Precision Rifle Day @ Angeles Ranges over the Labor Day Weekend. Ho snapped some pics and also took some videos.

This weekend was the maiden voyage for Han's IDF Tasco 6x44, Parker-Hale bipod, and 10-shot SSG magazine:


Close-up of the 6x44's target knobs:


As you can see, Han's scope has counterclockwise elevation. Elevation is adjusted in one-minute increments and the knob will do 32 minutes in a single turn. The zero stop is set for 200 meters rather than 100 yards. This scope features a 26mm tube and Han used his factory Steyr rings.

Top view of the eyepiece:


View through the scope:


This is an Israeli contract scope, so it makes sense that it would have a Nimrod reticle. This is very similar to the reticle on Ho's Swarovski:


Ho brought his blackie SSG P2K:


Jeff brought his Americanized SSG:


Steve brought his SSG P2K:


That's four SSGs. If my friend Tony were present, it could have been five SSGs. This is bullshit. I have to score myself an SSG as well. I was the odd man out with my Arctic Warfare:


Those are the guns. It was time to shoot.

Ho bangs one from the bench:


Ho's target in the crosshairs:


Ho's dot drill:


Three hits and three misses.

Han zeroes his new scope:


Close-up of the scope from the port side:


This is a beautiful scope. I love the thin 26mm tube and the angles of the bells. The scope is painted green and the markings are engravings that are paintfilled with white paint.

Note how the 10-shot magazine has a black back while the five-shots have a clear back. I've seen the 10-shots with the clear backs as well. These mags really are shrunken head Beta mags.

Jeff shoots his SSG from his weirdo prone position:


My AWP:


I had to take a turn on Han's Green Machine:


Han took a turn on my AWP:


Jeff takes a turn on my AWP. Bang:


Lift the bolt:


And flick it back:


Han dumped his Versa-Pod for a genuine Parker-Hale:


Now his rifle flops to the side:


My rifle after the bipod block tension screws:


I love my rifle with the tensioned bipod. It shoots like a totally different gun. Now there's no chaos after every shot. The weapon stays vertical during and after recoil. You don't have to muscle the gun to keep it vertical.

Some Angeles weirdo:


This guy was some shooting some AK pistol with Klingon brake and EOTech. Of course he can't hit anything with this gun, so he sets it up on sandbags and a forend rest.

And some target on the 50-yard line:


Note the tight grouping there.

Han zeroes his scope:


Note the adjustment covers are off. Note the green stock, green parkerizing, green scope, and green Sub. Han's booming.

Han was shooting at paper at 100 yards. I broke out the spotting scope to see his hits on the black bullseye:


Ho tried out the 10-shot mag in his Blackie:


Dream on, Ho. Dream on. These 10-shot SSG mags cost as much as Beta mags.

Here I'm shooting at the 100-yard paper:

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