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  #1  
Old June 14th, 2004, 06:27 AM
ronward ronward is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 738
Weapons Choice

Spent the weekend in south Alabama (very near to Ft. Rucker) at a friends farm for some fun and fellowship with Rovers and weapons. Spent many rounds behind a variety of military-type weaponry including a Romanian AK (7.62mm) and a couple different Bushmaster AR15 types, and a Chinese SKS. Anyway, now I want one and am looking for some direction. Anyone here care to chime in with an opinion?

The Bushmaster seemed a little finniky compared to the AK (pre-ban version) but I liked the look and feel more than the wooden stock of the AK.

Two guys had two identical bushmasters. One was obviously pristine and the other was pretty dirty. Their clips were different, some plastic and some metal, and one had the pre-ban bayonet lug on the front. Both had the folding stock.

Other weapons present were Sig 9mm, Beretta 9mm, Glock 9mm and .40, Walther .380, S+W .357 (2), M1 Garand, 1911 .45, Beretta .20 O/U, Browning Citori .12 O/U, Remington 1187 .20.
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  #2  
Old June 15th, 2004, 08:30 AM
ronward ronward is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 738
You mean to tell me out of all the gun afficionados who frequent this board not one of you has an opinion to share? Guess I could start a flame war, if nothing else, by saying H&K sucks, or worse, Snap-On sucks....
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  #3  
Old June 15th, 2004, 10:23 AM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
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Ooops, didn't see your post.

It doesn't surprise me that the Bushmasters were finicky. I have always found AR15 pattern weapons to be finicky and generally unreliable. Most stoppages on the AR15 pattern weapons are the "bolt over base" type, where the bolt hits the back of the topmost cartridge in the magazine but slides over it and the bolt goes into battery over an empty chamber. You can minimize this by sticking with top quality magazines and cherry picking them, and tossing your bad magazines.

Here is my favorite battle carbine:


Accept no substitutes.
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  #4  
Old June 15th, 2004, 11:16 AM
ronward ronward is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 738
Good to hear from you John. What is that? H&K MP5 or something? What weapons are issued to delta/sf these days?
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  #5  
Old June 15th, 2004, 11:47 AM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,147
The one in the picture is an HK33. It's the select-fire version. I don't think anyone really uses this weapon, as the AR weapons are readily available. Still, I much prefer this to the AR pattern weapons. The HK's are much more reliable and stronger as well. Heavy though. Here's another pic:



There is a civilian version called the HK93, which has a very slightly longer barrel and is semi auto. The HK93 also has a steel trigger pack, and does not have the paddle-style magazine release. The HK93's magazine is released via a button on the right side of the weapon. Here are two HK93's:



One of the coolest things about HK weapons is how they can be modified into different weapons. For example, HK used to make a very cool .22LR conversion for the HK33/43/93 family of weapons:



Unfortunately, the .22LR conversion kit costs more than most .22LR RIFLES. I paid $1000 for my own conversion kit. These kits are very rare today but are still available. The conversion kit is very sweet, although not as nice as the .22LR conversion kit for the G3/HK91 weapons. The G3 conversion kit is just awesome.
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  #6  
Old June 15th, 2004, 12:14 PM
ronward ronward is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 738
HK 93 A-3 looks like a sweet little beasty indeed. Sounds like you have one of these. If so, how does it compare in size (length and weight) to the Bushmaster. And the retractable stock is badass.
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  #7  
Old June 15th, 2004, 01:06 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,147
I have an HK43:



The HK43 is the semi-auto version of the HK33, but was imported by Saco Defense in the 1970's, well before the formation of HK USA. The HK43 is identical to the HK93 but the barrel is shorter and the flash suppressor is tac welded onto the barrel to meet the 16" minimum legal length.

I also have an HK91, which is basically the .308 version of the same gun:



The HK91 in that pic is set up in "target" mode with Zeiss Diavari 1.5-6x telescope, HK quickly detachable claw mount, HK five-shot magazine, HK lightweight bipod, and HK PSG1 adjustable buttstock and adjustable pistol grip. All of the doodads come off instantly:



Both my HK43 and HK91 are basically set up in identical ways. For storage, they are set up with the combat stocks and high-cap magazines. I have the same accessories for both rifles: .22LR conversion kits, PSG1 target buttstocks, PSG1 target grips, lightweight bipods, Zeiss Diavari telescopes, HK claw mounts, etc. The HK43 and HK91 are both very sweet rifles.
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  #8  
Old June 16th, 2004, 06:36 AM
Mike_Rupp Mike_Rupp is offline
Mike Rupp
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mercer Island, WA
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John, Why did you get the 22LR conversion kits? Why those vs. a dedicated 22LR rifle?
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  #9  
Old June 16th, 2004, 12:03 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
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The .22LR conversion kits are more fun to me than the dedicated .22LR guns like the Ruger 1022 and such. I do own dedicated rimfire weapons like the HK300, but find I don't shoot it nearly as much as my HK43 or HK91 with the .22LR conversion kit.

Imagine picking up an HK91. It's a very heavy rifle. It's not long, but it's wide and clunky. You pull the cocking handle back, which many adults are not strong enough to do, and lock the bolt backward. You insert a magazine and release the cocking handle. The bolt slams forward with great force. When you pull the trigger, you don't get a bang. You get a very attenuated pop and a dinky rimfire shell ejects out of the ejection port. You think, "what the hell?" and you pull the trigger again. And again. And again. You do this 20 times. The rifle works exactly as it would in .308, but with a .22LR cartridge.

To me, that is really cool. I derive much more pleasure out of shooting something like that than I would from shooting a something like a Ruger 1022. I think I paid something like $450 for a NIB G3 conversion kit, which is the steal of the century. I could have bought at least two 1022's for that price, but I would rather have the G3 conversion kit any day of the week.

If you ever see a G3 conversion kit, take a close look at it. The barrel insert is incredible. Just like all HK barrels, the bore on the insert barrel is hammer forged. So is the chamber. The bore is just perfect and the throat is completely free of reaming marks. My G3 kit is surprisingly accurate. I get about 1" groups at 50 yards with Remington rimfire rounds. That's not too shabby at all for an insert barrel. I tried getting better groups with match rounds like RWS R50 and Federal Gold Medal, but these rounds didn't have enough mojo to cycle the action reliably. CCI Green Tag and CCI Pistol Match did cycle the action reliably but didn't give any better accuracy than the plinking ammo.

And the "bolt within a bolt" design of the bolt carrier is really cool too, I think. As with all quality rimfire weapons, the rimfire bolt is eccentric so that the centered firing pin contacts the rim of of the .22LR cartridge instead of the center. What's even cooler is that you can still charge the weapon normally by pulling the cocking handle. There's no little shit cocking handle inside the ejection port. There's no lighter recoil spring to swap out when you change bolts. You can also dry fire the conversion kit without peening the edge of the chamber as on inferior rimfire designs. And the conversion kit slips in and out of the weapon in seconds. The conversion kit is also totally reliable. It's just a very well done conversion kit.

The only other rimfire conversion kit that I thought was as nice was the one for the Krieghoff Neptun:

http://www.krieghoff.de/english/models/mne.htm

The Neptun that I saw was a 16 x 16 x 9.3 ejector drilling. The Neptun had an ivory bead front sight for the shotgun, and two different flip-up open rear sights, one for the 9.3 and one for the .22LR. The conversion kit consisted of an insert barrel for the rimfire round. This was no shit insert barrel either. The 9.3's ejector engaged a smaller ejector on the rimfire barrel. After shooting the rifle barrel, you could open the Neptun and a tiny .22LR case would eject out of the rifle barrel. The barrel was also eccentric so that the 9.3's firing pin contacted the flange of the rimfire round. Dry firing was also possible. Just incredible I think.
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  #10  
Old June 17th, 2004, 08:34 AM
Mike_Rupp Mike_Rupp is offline
Mike Rupp
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mercer Island, WA
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I agree regarding the Ruger 1022. I had one that I used for plinking. I ended trading it away to my brother. I wasn't crazy about the 1022. I can't stand those stupid rotary magazines. I'd rather shoot a non-semi auto 22LR than the 1022.
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