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  #76  
Old July 2nd, 2008, 04:57 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,150
Buddy Jones did not like the comments being posted here. "[S]ince EE will not let me post on their site to comment", he posted on DiscoWeb:

http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50247
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  #77  
Old July 2nd, 2008, 05:55 PM
Matt Kendrick Matt Kendrick is offline
Matt Kendrick
KI6CGL
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Garden Grove, CA
Posts: 363
man, that's just ridiculous. can they really wonder why a large group of older members hasn't renewed? no way they're that clueless.
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  #78  
Old July 2nd, 2008, 10:06 PM
hochung hochung is offline
Ho Chung
W6HC
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
Posts: 2,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellymoe
I got a ear full from other SCLR members demanding that I "do something" about Jack being there.

demanding... who were the demanding ones besides Nathan?
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Ho Chung

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  #79  
Old July 2nd, 2008, 11:06 PM
read read is offline
Read Kerlin
KI6CSI
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 303
Man, I should use a smaller spoon the next time I stir the pot.
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  #80  
Old July 2nd, 2008, 11:12 PM
kellymoe kellymoe is offline
Kevin Mokracek
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by hochung
demanding... who were the demanding ones besides Nathan?

Ho,

I ignored it because it was a non issue. Went about my time and enjoyed the trails.
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  #81  
Old July 2nd, 2008, 11:23 PM
hochung hochung is offline
Ho Chung
W6HC
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
Posts: 2,006
nice. how convenient.
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  #82  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 08:13 AM
kellymoe kellymoe is offline
Kevin Mokracek
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 51
Not convenient Ho, the truth. I really couldn't tell you who it was. I have been on very few SCLR trip and only 2 meetings and never attended a board meeting. I know very few people in SCLR especially newer folks. I truly can only place a few names with faces. I know names from the SCLR board but could not tell you who they are out of a line up.

Like I said, the Jack issue was a non issue and of the few people who did complain I explained that it was a private campground owned by PSR and he has every right to be there.

I didnt let any of these issues spoil my time at the event. It wasnt until afterward that things started to come to light about drinking on the trail and all the other stuff. My views are well known to SCLR and everyone else. No more need to explain myself.
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  #83  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 10:09 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellymoe
I did however find it a little odd that he and his buddy cooked breakfast wearing Camelbacks hydration backpacks. I guess I never realised how strenuous cooking can be.

How do you wash your dishes with minimal water when you're in the desert, smartass?
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  #84  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 12:57 PM
kellymoe kellymoe is offline
Kevin Mokracek
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 51
Wipe clean and rinse, jackass!
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  #85  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 02:55 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,490
How the fuck is that not exactly what I do with a camelback?

Are you really that frustrated with your failed expedition into flip-flopping righteousness with SCLR that now you're looking to argue about what you should use a camelback for???

Let me guess, next you'll retract your statment because you've never really seen anyone use a camelback to wash dishes before and it's not your place to judge someone who does without listening to their position. And even if I was wrong to use a camelback to wash dishes, you believe in second chances, so you'll hold off on any further judgement because your such a swell guy and you want your kids to grow up to be really groovy too.
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  #86  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 05:07 PM
kellymoe kellymoe is offline
Kevin Mokracek
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 51
Jack,

I just thought you and your buddy looked really cute with matching camelbacks. I have never heard of washing dishes with them but hey I learn something new everyday.

No flip flopping righteousness. I felt bad about what I had written. Period. Have you ever felt the need to say sorry?

I think I am pretty swell guy. When I met you at RR7 you seemed pretty swell yourself, at least for the 10 minutes I walked around your truck with you. Not at all like the person you play on the interweb. If you did act that way in person you would be mother f'ing everyone who got within 20 feet of you and that doesn't goo over too well in mixed company.

And isn't it every fathers dream that their kids grow up to be groovy?
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  #87  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 06:01 PM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,628
http://www.sclr.org/forums/ubbthread...8652#Post18652

One more chance to voice an opinion... for those who are still club members.
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  #88  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 07:01 PM
kellymoe kellymoe is offline
Kevin Mokracek
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 51
Done. Even got in touch with a few other clubs just to see what their policies are.
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  #89  
Old July 5th, 2008, 01:37 PM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,628
I still can't believe that members of SCLR are arguing so strongy to continue to permit alcohol on the trail. The arguement seems to be that it is legal to drive on the street (with police enforcement) so it should be legal on the trail (with trail leader enforcement).

My main problem with this arguement is that very easily and very often "driving" on the trail becomes "operating heavy equipement" on the trail. It happens in the blink of an eye and no one can predict when it will happen.
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  #90  
Old July 5th, 2008, 02:17 PM
skippy3k skippy3k is offline
Scott Kirn
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 126
I just find it amazing that drinking on the trail is that important to them that they would put this much effort into fighting for it. There are just some things in life that aren't worth the effort...and having a drink on the trail is one of them in my opinion.
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  #91  
Old July 5th, 2008, 03:33 PM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,628
At this point I think it is as much about not admitting that they were wrong.
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  #92  
Old July 5th, 2008, 03:53 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by skippy3k
I just find it amazing that drinking on the trail is that important to them that they would put this much effort into fighting for it. There are just some things in life that aren't worth the effort...and having a drink on the trail is one of them in my opinion.


I'm not.
My personal experience is that for most people who I have fourwheeled with their early exploits into offroad recreation went hand in hand with alcohol consumption. I'm not talking about the worst people I know in the offroad world, I'm talking about the majority.
Many of the earlier Land Rover outings I went on featured commonplace drinking on daytime trail runs and some positively intoxicated night runs. It was much closer to the rule than the exception. It seemed to me that for many of these people their earliest outings seemed to be infused with some sort of rebellious sentiment, as if just driving offroad was akin to breaking the normal rules. It always struck me as strange, but it was as if people were thinking, "We're going offroad and we can do whatever the fuck we want. No seatbelts, as fast as we can drive, drinking, firearms, whatever. Anything goes."
Most of these people were definitely enthusiasts but they weren't what I would call life-long fourwheelers. Their Land Rover was likely their first fourwheeldrive and they were hitting the dirt for the first time in middle age. These people seemed very susceptible to conformist tendencies and quickly replicated the behavior of others, particularly on group outings. For whatever reasons, this was how I saw it go down.

But it was what happened for each of these people in the subsequent years that matters to me.
Most of these people evolved.
They came to realize that they were serious about these outings and that drinking had no place on the trail and on tougher trips it probably had little if any place even in the campsite. No matter what their origins, as people got serious about fourwheeling they sobered up in more ways than one.

Some people, however, never evolved.
They never got any better. Their trucks never got any better. Their trips never got any more interesting. And they always seemed to cling to drinking as an integral part of fourwheeling.

It doesn't suprise me now, that these same people will fight to cling to their "right" to drink on the trail. They've never seen fit to change anything about the way they fourwheel.
Why would drinking be any different?
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  #93  
Old July 5th, 2008, 04:52 PM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,628
As much as I hate to admit it, I started out much as Jack has described.
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  #94  
Old July 5th, 2008, 05:08 PM
kellymoe kellymoe is offline
Kevin Mokracek
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by traveltoad
As much as I hate to admit it, I started out much as Jack has described.

Guilty. Used to pop a top as soon as I hit the dirt. Road sodas were just part of the trip. Then I grew up. I took my trips and responsibility more seriously and had just as much fun. Now it's water or some Gatorade equivalent during the day and a few, I repeat, few fine micro brews for the campfire along with my cigar of choice. When I am on a trip with my kids I have ZERO alcohol during the trip.

For some people a beer in hand is just a natural extension to their body. I am guilty of being the same with coffee. I have a cup of coffee in hand all day long. The worst side effect is having to pee all the time.
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  #95  
Old July 5th, 2008, 05:11 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,150
Me too. I used to drink on the trail. We'd stop for lunch and I'd pop open a Corona and drink it with my sandwich. The hotter it was, the better the Corona went down.

Looking back at that, I can't believe I was such an idiot.
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  #96  
Old July 5th, 2008, 05:45 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,290
I find unsafe circumstances on the trail attributable to one or more of the following:

1. Lack of knowledge

2. Irresponsible behavior

3. Lack of proper equipment

I have sympathy for 1 and 3. ALL of us have been there. Not much sympathy for 2.

I think the comments/arguments Kevin is receiving over on the SCLR website are rather telling.
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  #97  
Old July 5th, 2008, 06:02 PM
dchapman dchapman is online now
Daniel Chapman
KJ4BXR
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 1,121
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
Me too. I used to drink on the trail. We'd stop for lunch and I'd pop open a Corona and drink it with my sandwich. The hotter it was, the better the Corona went down.


What? No Zima?
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  #98  
Old July 5th, 2008, 07:37 PM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,628
Joe seems to think that none of this matters:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeNosal taken from the SCLR BBS
Comments by non-members have no bearing in this club. If Quint wants to interject then fine, but whatever those other guys say on that other website is irrelevant. not to mention some of them are outright liars.
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  #99  
Old July 5th, 2008, 07:38 PM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by greghirst
I think the comments/arguments Kevin is receiving over on the SCLR website are rather telling.

True. As are the people invoved in the arguement.
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  #100  
Old July 5th, 2008, 10:55 PM
Matt Kendrick Matt Kendrick is offline
Matt Kendrick
KI6CGL
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Garden Grove, CA
Posts: 363
I also find it rather telling that as these threads are raging and clearly getting plenty of views (over 400 on the SCLR BBS), it's mainly Joe, Buddy (who's clearly just trying to save face at this point), and this other jackass, "B. Cogswell", doing all the spouting off.

Where are the rest of the members that care so much about this issue? Joe is always the first one to jump on the "you can't listen to those guys, they have another agenda" bandwagon, but unless I missed it, I'm not seeing too much support. So who really has the agenda?

Ultimately, i think jack is right, MOST people evolve, mature, and figure it out. Some however, are clearly hopeless.
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