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  #1  
Old July 18th, 2007, 09:50 AM
DougG DougG is offline
Douglas G. Gable
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cooperstown NY
Posts: 88
Handgun advice

I'm in the process of getting my pistol permit in NY state. I would like some advice on purchasing a handgun. I would be getting this handgun for self protection. I would like something with good "stopping power", and something that is easy to use and concealable. A police friend was trying to convince me that I should look into getting a revolver, but there is a lot of choices out there. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
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  #2  
Old July 18th, 2007, 02:12 PM
reelpain
 
Posts: n/a
Many law enforcement officers are carrying Glocks,HK's or Sig's. The latest greatest is the 5 7 that shoots HP rounds and is very smooth on recoil and deadly accurate to shoot. Accuracy is your "stopping power". In my opinion, for concealability I would go with a 380 Walther PPKS. Great little gun! If you want a hand Cannon go to a 40 or 45 Caliber. Concealability is fairly decent for them all and is based on holstering style. Inner Belt holsters are the best, but are not very comfortable. Go to a local Gun Monger and try out the different feels and styles.

FWIW: I like HK or Sig and personally have a Sig stainless 45 Caliber.
More than enough stopping power. I agree with your friend; A nice trigger less 357 revolver is good starter gun and not too complicated. (you may also target practice with 38 special ammo cheaply)

Just my 2 cents. If your looking for home security.....Nothing beats a shotgun with OO Buck Shot. It's a room clearer!
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  #3  
Old July 18th, 2007, 07:04 PM
dannydisco dannydisco is offline
Daniel Long
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by reelpain
.....I agree with your friend; A nice trigger less 357 revolver is good starter gun and not too complicated.......

?????Hammerless maybe????? Trigger-less might be knda hard to fire.
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  #4  
Old July 18th, 2007, 07:07 PM
Scott Brady Scott Brady is offline
Scott Brady
KE7PNP
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 267
I am partial to the accuracy of the HK. I carry the USP 45

However, the grip is big, so make sure your hands are large enough to operate the safety without shifting your grip.
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  #5  
Old July 18th, 2007, 08:22 PM
JMH JMH is offline
Jonathan Hanson
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tucson, more or less.
Posts: 274
My vote: Glock 19. 9MM.

Easy manual of arms - barely more complex than a revolver, but over twice the capacity. Utterly reliable. Concealable.

Cheap practice ammunition, so you can learn to hit what you aim at - as someone said, your best stopping power. Good stopping ammunition available from Corbon and similar companies.

Easy for either men or women to shoot. Inexpensive. Very low recoil.

The only downside is, it has the aesthetic appeal of a refrigerator. But this is your life you're talking about. Aesthetics comes second.
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  #6  
Old July 19th, 2007, 05:41 AM
DougG DougG is offline
Douglas G. Gable
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cooperstown NY
Posts: 88
Thanks for the replies. I like the idea about the shotgun at home. I also like the Walther and the Glock for handguns. My only concern about the Glock is that I was told(by the same police friend) that the Glock did not have a safety. My wife is already against the idea of firearms in the house with our 3 year old daughter. A safety-less pistol might be a hard sell.
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61 Series II 109 SW
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  #7  
Old July 19th, 2007, 06:51 AM
ronward ronward is offline
KI4WWU
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 739
The .380 and .40 are great choices for home defense and personal carry. My .380 (Astra Constable mid-80's production Walther knock-off) stays in the Disco with me most of the time. But for pure stopping value, a pump action 12ga. will grab anyone's attention in a dark room late at night.

What I'm looking for is a laser sight (red-dot) to affix to my new-to-me Sig .40 (P229). Watching a show last night about handguns and flashlights and red-dot lasers got me to thinking about adding a laser to the Sig.

Anyone here rock a grip laser?
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1990 Range Rover Classic
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  #8  
Old July 19th, 2007, 10:22 AM
reelpain
 
Posts: n/a
I ammend my comment about the "triggerless". I had a brain fart!!
Yes, hammerless would make a world of difference! I highly recommend the .380 for concealability. Less recoil, smaller handgrip and you can put a decent stopping load in it. Look at all the bad guys James Bond killed!

For what you would pay for a Glock,Sig,HK you could get a Walther and a 12 or 10 ga shotgun. (Almost)

One more thing, I think in NY, as in many states you need to have a gun lock for all handguns. These are ridiculous if its a weapon for protecting the household. Get a lock box instead!! Brownie points with the wife!
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  #9  
Old July 19th, 2007, 10:27 AM
reelpain
 
Posts: n/a
Ron;

I have an extra laser/flashlight (surefire) underbarrel rail mount unit.
Don't know if your interested? I have a Sig 220 .45 stainless. They work great for night ops - home protection.
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  #10  
Old July 19th, 2007, 10:52 AM
ronward ronward is offline
KI4WWU
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Columbus, GA
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Maybe if it's not too big. The lasers out now are tiny and stick to the frame. Any pics of yours or model number?

Thanks
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1990 Range Rover Classic
& a couple nice watches

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  #11  
Old July 19th, 2007, 12:18 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougG
Thanks for the replies. I like the idea about the shotgun at home. I also like the Walther and the Glock for handguns. My only concern about the Glock is that I was told(by the same police friend) that the Glock did not have a safety. My wife is already against the idea of firearms in the house with our 3 year old daughter. A safety-less pistol might be a hard sell.

The Glock "Safe-Action" has three internal safeties. It does not have an external safety. I doubt you could have an accidental disharge unless you "accidently" pull the trigger.

For your kids' sake, keep your firearms in a gunsafe and train your kids on proper and safe handling of firearms. That's the only true "safety".
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  #12  
Old July 19th, 2007, 02:08 PM
reelpain
 
Posts: n/a
Couldn't have said it better myself Greg! Glocks, to me seem "ghetto". It's the gun of choice for "bangers" or law enforcement departments wanting to save money. My buddy has one and just didn't like the feel for it. Just like with other things though, its a personal preference.
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  #13  
Old July 19th, 2007, 02:29 PM
dchapman dchapman is offline
Daniel Chapman
KJ4BXR
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 1,121
I really like my Glock. It shoots well, feels right in my hands, and the options for the gun are endless. It's not a "gourmet" gun by any stretch of the imagination, it just plain works.
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  #14  
Old July 19th, 2007, 03:09 PM
sheki sheki is offline
David Shechter
KC2PFB
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 571
I also have a Glock 19, and really like it. I even love the aesthetics of it. Yes, it is less expensive than other pistols (didn't realize that was a bad thing). It is super reliable and very easy to take apart and clean and due to all the plastic parts it is very low maintenance too. The gun is simple, reliable, accurate, easy to use and easy to maintain... what more could you ask for? Looks are just a matter of preference. One more thing, it doesn't get untouchably hot when shooting it at the range. Since accuracy is your "stopping power" make sense to have a gun you can shoot a lot to practice with.
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  #15  
Old July 19th, 2007, 03:32 PM
tonydesanto tonydesanto is offline
Tony DeSanto
Gen
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Greater Denver Area
Posts: 252
Glock 27

Gunsafe

Appropriate holsters for storage and carry

Gunsafe: there are some out there that make access/retrieval to authorized users very quick indeed.

Glock: if it's in a holster or gunsafe, that's all the safety you need. The loaded weapon doesn't need to be outside of the safe or holster unless it's needed.

To find the best gun, you need to first narrow down and prioritize your needs. Itís all about finding the right tool to fit the job.

For concealment my concerns were the following (in order of priority):

1. Size (if it's too big to carry and conceal, you won't carry it. If you don't carry it, what's the point?)
2. Weight (same reasons as above).
3. Caliber (often considered the most important, but usually at the sacrifice of the first two).
4. Profile (I wanted a clean, snag-less profile so that it was easy to handle in a hurry)
5. Accuracy (within reason, a concealed handgun need only be as accurate as the situation for which it is intended, namely 3-15 yards).

I had always been against the sub-compact models, mostly because the manufacturers seemed to simply chop the grip off. Most of them only allow the middle and ring fingers to be used. I had this opinion right up until I shot the Glock 27. It is almost as small as my .380 (except itís slightly wider), yet offers the ability to carry 10 rounds of .40 caliber.

Itís not a winner on looks, but points very easily and naturally. It is quite accurate for a gun of its size, especially considering the short grip and barrel. Easy to operate and field strip. Very reliable. For my priorities 1 and 2, this model was dead on. Fully loaded it weighs less than most other guns empty.

The best advice I can offerótry to find a gun range where you can shoot different models. Also check out the different holster offerings for several guns and see which ones feel right to you. If you can find one that fits you and that you can easily conceal and carry, then youíll actually carry it all the time. Thatís probably the most important criterion of all.
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  #16  
Old July 19th, 2007, 03:56 PM
reelpain
 
Posts: n/a
Sorry to step on any toes to all you Glock owners. A gun is like a watch,in that its up to personal preference. Price didn't factor into my comments for personal use, but the plastic looks did. Just my personal preference. The .380 Walther PPKS with a Hollow tipped load is as deadly as anything else and conceals better than most handguns. A Glock is much wider and heavier, especially with a 10 round clip....How many rounds does one need in a 5 yard shootout?
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  #17  
Old July 19th, 2007, 05:02 PM
dchapman dchapman is offline
Daniel Chapman
KJ4BXR
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 1,121
Quote:
Originally Posted by reelpain
....How many rounds does one need in a 5 yard shootout?


I've got 15, just in case.
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  #18  
Old July 19th, 2007, 05:26 PM
reelpain
 
Posts: n/a
You better get to the range!!
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  #19  
Old July 19th, 2007, 07:03 PM
JMH JMH is offline
Jonathan Hanson
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tucson, more or less.
Posts: 274
Quote:
The .380 Walther PPKS with a Hollow tipped load is as deadly as anything else

Sorry, but that's just wrong (and I own a lovely German PPKS). The .380 will kill someone just fine, but it might not do it very quickly. That's why we refer to stopping power rather than killing power. More powerful calibers - 9mm Parabellum and up - are statistically more likely to quickly stop aggressive action in an attacker, given the same point of entry and similar bullet design.

Yes, a hit with a .380 is infinitely better than a miss with a .45. You should carry the largest caliber you can shoot well and will carry. A .44 Magnum left at home is a lousy stopper.

And regarding capacity - yep, thousands of gunfights have been won with seven-shot 1911s or six-shot revolvers. But my question is this: If you knew you were about to be forced to defend yourself against an unkown number of attackers, of unknown determination, and you had your choice of one of two otherwise identical handguns - same ergonomics, same accuracy, same caliber - one of which held seven rounds, and one of which held 15, which would you choose?

Regarding the "lack" of a safety on the Glock - was this from the same police officer friend who recommended a revolver?
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  #20  
Old July 19th, 2007, 08:09 PM
DougG DougG is offline
Douglas G. Gable
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cooperstown NY
Posts: 88
Regarding the "lack" of a safety on the Glock - was this from the same police officer friend who recommended a revolver?[/quote]

Yes it was. I think he was trying to tell me that in most situations of self defense or personal home protection, the incident is over in a few seconds, and you would only need a few rounds. I'm not taking his word as gospel, but just his opinion amongst many opinions.
I'm leaning towards a 12 gauge shotgun, and a 9mm or .40 cal. compact semi-auto pistol.
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61 Series II 109 SW
95 RRC County LWB
06 Range Rover
98 Discovery LE

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  #21  
Old July 19th, 2007, 08:28 PM
tonydesanto tonydesanto is offline
Tony DeSanto
Gen
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Greater Denver Area
Posts: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by reelpain
Sorry to step on any toes to all you Glock owners.

No toes stepped on here. I actually understand your dislike of the looks/plastic.

It wasn't my first choice either, but given my criteria, I found that it met all of them and did so rather nicely.

Keep in mind that my like of this weapon is strictly as a concealed carry weapon. If we're talking about personal defense at home, or use at the range, etc...that's a whole different story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reelpain
A Glock is much wider and heavier, especially with a 10 round clip....

Empty, the Glock 27 is actually lighter than the PPK/S. Loaded, the Glock is slightly heavier. It also has 2 more rounds of ammo too...

It is definitely wider, probably an additional 30-40% wider. I haven't compared it in size to the PPK; however, next to my Bersa .380 concealed carry (slightly smaller than the standard Thunder .380), it's not really any longer or taller.

Walther PPK/S 619g (22 oz) empty/ 667-690 grams loaded (approximately)
http://www.waltheramerica.com
Glock 27 560g (19.75) empty/ 765 g loaded
http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htm
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  #22  
Old July 19th, 2007, 09:31 PM
reelpain
 
Posts: n/a
If your leaning toward a 9mm, I would highly recommend the Beretta 9mm. (Great gun! "bulletproof", easy to use, inexpensive and accurate.) Its thinner and conceals well. With regards to defense. In close quarter defense your skills shooting are far more important than how many rounds you carry. I'm not saying more rounds are not better, but you have to compromise something when talking about concealed weaponry. I have never heard of 10 assailants attacking an individual at once. (except in combat of course)
A .22 can kill, and has for that matter. Caliber has to be compromised when dealing with the issue of concealment! Otherwise everyone would be carrying a Dessert Eagle for stopping power.

Why were Darenger's invented? 2 shots kill just as good as 10 or 15 given the shooter! And lets all be honest here, if your not on a range every week like law enforcement, your a good shot if your putting them in the black at 15 yards. Factor in adrenaline for those 10 attackers that are all coming at you at once and your better off with a K-Bar or Bench made than 10 or 15 rounds of ammo!!
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  #23  
Old July 19th, 2007, 09:40 PM
JMH JMH is offline
Jonathan Hanson
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tucson, more or less.
Posts: 274
Doug, a 12-gauge shotgun and a 9mm or .40-caliber pistol would be a perfect combination.

The reason I asked about the revolver is that revolvers have no external safeties either, so it's odd that someone would recommend a revolver but warn against a Glock because of the Glock's lack of a manual safety . . .

There are many really good compact semi-auto pistols on the market, and your final decision might rest on which one simply feels best. Try the HK USP Compact or their more recent models, the compact Sigs, and the Springfield Armory XDs for variety.
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  #24  
Old July 19th, 2007, 09:54 PM
reelpain
 
Posts: n/a
All good recommendations JMH.
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  #25  
Old July 20th, 2007, 05:33 AM
ronward ronward is offline
KI4WWU
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 739
Love this thread!

It's too hot for golf here (and I hate golf anyway) and it's too hot to fish, so i'm taking my daughter with me to the firing range/gun shop this afternoon for a little browsing and shooting.

Oh, a friend recommended I check out Crimson Trace lasers. Anyone use these?
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1990 Range Rover Classic
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