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  #51  
Old December 31st, 2007, 07:28 AM
dchapman dchapman is offline
Daniel Chapman
KJ4BXR
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 1,116
Maybe the owner is a Mystery Science Theater 3000 fan and is trying to replicate Tom Servo...???
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  #52  
Old March 20th, 2008, 04:51 PM
dchapman dchapman is offline
Daniel Chapman
KJ4BXR
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 1,116
EE better snach up this HOTT! deal before Bill Davis finds out about it. http://www.myrover.net/forums/viewth...age=1#pid35824
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  #53  
Old April 9th, 2008, 08:12 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
It looks like SCLR is bringing back the must-have-a-roll-over spirit of the Big Bear Rover Rendezvous days to Death Valley.

Here's a clip of the recovery.
Every bit as freightening as you might imagine.

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  #54  
Old April 9th, 2008, 09:18 AM
traveltoad traveltoad is online now
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,624
From the SCLR board in regards to the Defense Mine run with the roll over:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertCrawler
from the SCLR board
A few lessons learned (for me and future trip leaders) would be:

*snip*

b)Never let your guard down.

*snip*

c)No drinking on trails was a good thing.

*snip*

e)Recovery Bags are your friend. We ended up using chains, a pulley, a towstrap,a tree saver strap, and several D-shackles to pull off a pretty complex recovery.
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  #55  
Old April 9th, 2008, 11:38 AM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,287
That's just sad...

Note the no drinking policy. I wonder if that's because LRCLV arranged the date reservation with Panamint Springs last year and set some RR8 rules or if NCLR insisted because that's their club policy.

Um, isn't that spot on the right side of this pic?

I'm glad no one apparently was hurt during that recovery.
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  #56  
Old April 9th, 2008, 01:56 PM
dchapman dchapman is offline
Daniel Chapman
KJ4BXR
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 1,116
That's kindda funny
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  #57  
Old April 9th, 2008, 06:01 PM
marc olivares marc olivares is offline
marc olivares
KE7MAF
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: salt lake city
Posts: 104
wow, whatta bunch of rookies
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  #58  
Old April 13th, 2008, 10:07 AM
Nadir_E
 
Posts: n/a
I've never had to deal with a rolled vehicle on or off the trail so it isn't as easy for me to critique their technique as perhaps it is for others. (The fact that the guy in charge seems to be running around in cammies and what looks like a shoulder holster does suggest a fair amount of goofiness, however).

I'd appreciate thoughts on how a better/safer recovery could be effected, if anyone feels like commenting in greater detail on the example above.

I did a little research to see how others upright a rolled vehicle and the best examples I found were from towing companies, so how much it would apply to a trail situation may vary. The first video is the most interesting (to me) because of the use of a "roll over stick" to prevent/reduce sliding. It doesn't appear to be attached to the vehicle in any permanent fashion.


Here are some others I found, some instructional in nature, others just videos of people doing their thing.

Interesting because it appears that they're winching on the vehicle from multiple directions at once:



This one isn't about a rolled vehicle, but it's interesting anyway...

This one is just funny....

Spending some time on youtube looking at various examples of roll overs, wrecks and recoveries among the 4x4 community shows just how many wing nuts are out there on the trail. A little scary!

-n
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  #59  
Old April 13th, 2008, 11:38 AM
Scott Brady Scott Brady is offline
Scott Brady
KE7PNP
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 267
Some thoughts

Some details and variable are not addressed below, but this is a basic overview.

1. Safety of bystanders. All non-essential personnel out of the recovery zone.
2. Safety of recovery personnel. Marshal clearly defined, all PPE in use. Chain of command and communication methods reviewed.
3. Control and containment of leaking vehicle fluids.
4. Assessment for known variables (sliding, final vehicle positioning, etc.)
5. Safety and chalking/securing of recovering vehicles (if present) i.e., prevent further damage to other assets.
6. Control and securing of the stuck/rolled vehicle. i.e., winch rigging and chalking and lashing to ensure a predictable righting.
7. Audit of all rigging for WLL and sufficient rope length and spooling with adequate allowance for underage/overage
8. Stability/safety of recovered vehicle once righted
9. Full safety inspection of recovered vehicle before moved, repaired or started. i.e. fire hazards, loose kit, battery acid, etc.
10. Full clean-up of recovery site, including all glass and non-bio fluids. Post-assessment.

One of the most important things, that is often forget... 99% of the time, you are not in a rush, so assess, create a recovery plan, go slow and safe.
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  #60  
Old April 13th, 2008, 11:45 AM
Scott Brady Scott Brady is offline
Scott Brady
KE7PNP
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 267
It is also important to note that above is a review of post-incident vehicle recovery.

Accident assessment, occupant care/aid and vehicle stabilization are different, where the recovery, treatment and control of further injury is addressed at the time of the accident (and the emphasis is on life, not property).
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  #61  
Old April 13th, 2008, 06:17 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
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  #62  
Old April 15th, 2008, 12:13 PM
Nadir_E
 
Posts: n/a
Nice, Jack. Looks like it would work equally well with something like a pull-pal if the large boulder or another vehicle in a similar location wasn't available.

Again not having dealt with a rolled vehicle, am I correct in understanding that there is a need to clear the cylinders of oil, etc.? How important is this prior to resuming driving?

Thanks for the info, everyone.
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  #63  
Old April 15th, 2008, 12:33 PM
traveltoad traveltoad is online now
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,624
Quote:
Originally Posted by expeditionswest
One of the most important things, that is often forget... 99% of the time, you are not in a rush, so assess, create a recovery plan, go slow and safe.

Agreed. Fully assess, formulate a plan, then start the recovery.
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  #64  
Old April 15th, 2008, 10:34 PM
scrover scrover is offline
Steve Cooper
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 195
Thou shalt not judge by YouTube alone. I was on that run. It wasn't "kindda funny" or "freightening". That's the second time someone flipped behind me and it's not fun, but the recovery was handled safely and efficiently under the circumstances. Will broke his hand in the roll over btw.

"Some details and variable are not addressed below, but this is a basic overview.

1. Safety of bystanders. All non-essential personnel out of the recovery zone.

Bystanders were cleared from the recovery zone. My kids watched from a great distance.

2. Safety of recovery personnel. Marshal clearly defined, all PPE in use. Chain of command and communication methods reviewed.

Will was in charge, despite a broken hand, it was his truck so he called the shots.

3. Control and containment of leaking vehicle fluids.

No leaks.

4. Assessment for known variables (sliding, final vehicle positioning, etc.)

Vehicle was quickly secured front, rear and side.

5. Safety and chalking/securing of recovering vehicles (if present) i.e., prevent further damage to other assets.

Ditto, no further damage to vehicle.

6. Control and securing of the stuck/rolled vehicle. i.e., winch rigging and chalking and lashing to ensure a predictable righting.

Ditto. Predicatable landing zone.

7. Audit of all rigging for WLL and sufficient rope length and spooling with adequate allowance for underage/overage.

Yeah, we tested the working load limit of the chain around the rock Done.

8. Stability/safety of recovered vehicle once righted.

Done.

9. Full safety inspection of recovered vehicle before moved, repaired or started. i.e. fire hazards, loose kit, battery acid, etc.

Done. Vehicle drove out.

10. Full clean-up of recovery site, including all glass and non-bio fluids. Post-assessment."

Done. Oil soaked air filter was bagged and trekked out. Broken glass was also bagged.

Everyone helped and did what they could. We were back on the road within an hour. I don't know what else to tell you. There was no drinking on this trail btw - back at the hotel, now that's a different story
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  #65  
Old April 16th, 2008, 05:18 AM
Scott Brady Scott Brady is offline
Scott Brady
KE7PNP
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrover
Thou shalt not judge by YouTube alone...

Everyone helped and did what they could. We were back on the road within an hour. I don't know what else to tell you. There was no drinking on this trail btw - back at the hotel, now that's a different story

Thanks for your review of actual events. My list was just a general overview of a rolled vehicle recovery process, nearly as I would conduct one in SOCOM training, and not any judgement on the recovery in the video. There was just far too little video shown to offer a detailed critique.

In my mind, every time a rollover or other notable trail incident occurs and is documented, it can be a learning opportunity.
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  #66  
Old April 16th, 2008, 07:31 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
What about the corkscrewed strap and the jumping around on the vehicle mid recovery?

How did this guy break his hand?
Did he have it hanging out the window or something?
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  #67  
Old April 16th, 2008, 12:28 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
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  #68  
Old April 16th, 2008, 04:48 PM
benlittle benlittle is offline
Ben Little
KE7BEN
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 384
Is there a truck there? All I can see are a couple of tires and some floating captains chairs...
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  #69  
Old April 16th, 2008, 10:03 PM
scrover scrover is offline
Steve Cooper
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSQ
What about the corkscrewed strap and the jumping around on the vehicle mid recovery?

How did this guy break his hand?
Did he have it hanging out the window or something?

Is a corkscrewed strap inherently weaker than a strap that is kept flat? If I take a 3000lb strap and twist it 20 times is there a relative reduction in strength? Or is it just aesthetics? I don’t know the answer. I know that strap was corkscrewed because one guy grabbed one end of a coiled strap and another guy grabbed the other end and they ran in opposite directions to quickly deploy the strap between the rolled vehicle and the only vehicle that luckily happened to be behind Will.

I don’t think I suggested it was a text book recovery and it wasn’t. What I felt compelled to defend was the immediate dismissal of the recovery as a joke; and the idea of a “must-have-a-roll-over spirit” is just not true. Nobody wants that. This was a great group of guys and an unfortunate accident happened. We were on our way back after eight hours of wheeling when the flip happened. Nobody wanted this but everybody helped as best they could. For the record, all the “yahoos” stayed home this year – couldn’t handle the curfew I guess. Nice quiet weekend.

The jumping on the vehicle in that first video was Eddie (I think) deploying the ebrake to prevent the truck from rolling forward as we attempted to right the vehicle. There was a bit more to the recovery than that clip and after the initial adrenaline phase there were some deep breaths and a well formulated recovery (IMHO). As you can see the vehicle could not be righted in that location (I still don’t know how he flipped and ended up so close to the rocks on the right) so we had to inch the vehicle forward until it was past the rocks enough to stand upright. The Disco strapped from behind and the other Disco winching from the front along with the Defender winching from the side (and the ticks holding the truck while the side winch was repositioned) got the job done. There was no further injury, or damage to the vehicle from the recovery. My daughter took some other video (from a safe distance) – I’ll see if I can figure out how to post it.

I didn’t see the rollover so I’m not clear how Will’s hand came to be between his truck and the rocks. The first four guys on the scene lifted the truck enough for him to free his hand. We didn’t know it was broken at the time. Will is the guy in “cammies” and the “shoulder holster” is a four point binocular strap – I’d say more geeky than goofy. I suspect he instinctively stuck out his hand to stop his face from hitting the rocks.

Greg, yes that’s the spot, and ironically Will was the only one to take the right hand line on the way up - should have taken it on the way down
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  #70  
Old April 16th, 2008, 10:11 PM
scrover scrover is offline
Steve Cooper
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSQ

I think that's the new Popemobile
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  #71  
Old April 18th, 2008, 07:41 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
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  #72  
Old April 18th, 2008, 08:05 PM
lucasd2002 lucasd2002 is offline
David Lucas
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 96
The stupidity in that thread is unfathomable. When is "Harbor Freight" going to become an official sponsor of that site?
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  #73  
Old April 18th, 2008, 08:17 PM
mtnrovr mtnrovr is offline
Ryan Tolentino
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 174
Jack, that post is just so sad...
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  #74  
Old April 19th, 2008, 07:36 AM
traveltoad traveltoad is online now
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,624
All I can think about is the scene from the God's must be Crazy.
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  #75  
Old April 21st, 2008, 10:40 AM
dmarchand dmarchand is offline
David Marchand
KB1NYP
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 177
Perhaps start a "Darwin's" list for LR BBS's.

Plenty of material to support:
http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=47958
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