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  #901  
Old June 20th, 2017, 07:43 PM
chris snell chris snell is online now
Christopher Snell
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,379
In the news tonight:

http://ksnt.com/2017/06/20/k-state-p...book_KSNT_News

Quote:
My child’s safety is one of the very most things that’s important to me especially in choosing a childcare facility.

This is what I'm up against.
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  #902  
Old June 21st, 2017, 04:20 AM
stu454 stu454 is online now
Stuart Ivie
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Is there no other daycare in the area?
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  #903  
Old June 21st, 2017, 08:40 AM
blue blue is offline
Bill Gill, aka chump hater
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell
This is what I'm up against.


She sounds like a real genius.

“So, I think it’s wonderful to know that they’re in a safe environment during the day when I can’t be with them.”

“I definitely think it’s something that all pre-schools should consider,” Pennington said. “I think, based on the faculty and staff that are there and the needs of the kids that are there in that facility.”


She thinks what? This chick would be pacified by a Gun Free Zone sign. So, I think it's wonderful based on the faculty and staff signs for the kids are safe and gun free, and stuff.
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  #904  
Old June 21st, 2017, 10:53 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
I watched that video and Erin Pennington didn't strike me as a parent. She feels more like a liberal agent. She says all the right things and what she says feels a little too on point and rehearsed. She even recommends that other schools follow suit.

Even if she's not a liberal agent, she's a parent who was coached.
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  #905  
Old June 24th, 2017, 11:53 AM
ronward ronward is online now
KI4WWU
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 738
Anyone know why reporter Jared Thompson is wearing a tuxedo?
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  #906  
Old June 24th, 2017, 02:39 PM
RyanLoehr RyanLoehr is online now
Ryan Loehr
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 70
One issue--an issue that isn't really dispositive of anything, but it has a lot of people, both Democrats and Republicans, a bit skiddish regarding where people can carry guns--is that, as of July 2015, Kansas no longer requires any sort of permit to conceal carry. A lot of people from the entire political spectrum who have never contemplated concealed carry before are still coming to terms with that, rightly or wrongly.

I'm not sure about Pennington, but KSU, and Manhattan in general, is a fairly conservative populous. It's a lot of country kids from nearby small towns who wind there.

Even so, the majority of Democrats in Kansas are pro a broadly-interpreted 2nd Amendment--if they didn't grow up hunting, they knew lots of people who did.
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  #907  
Old June 25th, 2017, 10:28 AM
kevinp kevinp is online now
Kevin Price KJ6NII
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 274
Other less hoplophobic school principals permit and even encourage CCW parents to carry in schools.

True story.
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  #908  
Old June 25th, 2017, 12:16 PM
chris snell chris snell is online now
Christopher Snell
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Ryan, when was the last time you were in Manhattan? This place feels as liberal as any college town. 2A rights are not popular on this campus. They might be more popular here than, say, UC Berkeley, but the university does not feel like a conservative bastion.

Erin Pennington is representative of the average mom at our childcare facility. I've asked several parents of our boys' friends what they thought about the new policy and they really liked it. They genuinely believe that it will make it more safe for their kids.
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  #909  
Old June 25th, 2017, 01:28 PM
RyanLoehr RyanLoehr is online now
Ryan Loehr
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell
Ryan, when was the last time you were in Manhattan? This place feels as liberal as any college town. 2A rights are not popular on this campus. They might be more popular here than, say, UC Berkeley, but the university does not feel like a conservative bastion.

Erin Pennington is representative of the average mom at our childcare facility. I've asked several parents of our boys' friends what they thought about the new policy and they really liked it. They genuinely believe that it will make it more safe for their kids.

I did not go to K State but the people I know my age who did are mostly conservative--maybe it's shifted since then. Manhattan--small town that it is--has grown quite a bit over the last 10 years. I had thought it was farmers selling their land and retiring in a college town. Maybe not.

The liberal college in Kansas has historically been KU.
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  #910  
Old June 25th, 2017, 01:55 PM
kevinp kevinp is online now
Kevin Price KJ6NII
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell
Erin Pennington is representative of the average mom at our childcare facility. I've asked several parents of our boys' friends what they thought about the new policy and they really liked it. They genuinely believe that it will make it more safe for their kids.

That's because they believe that anyone who carries a gun (police excepted, maybe, maybe not) is a hair's-breadth away from going off the rails. Why? Because they actually distrust themselves with great responsibility. They know that they are prone to road rage, even at the school dropoff. They call 911 when their neighbor has a party, and freak out if someone is smoking tobacco near them. They become irrationally angry at the minor transgressions of others, even if they are unaffected by them.

The idea that someone would be capable of calm, rational and deliberative thought, would have control of their emotions, and wouldn't completely overreact in an adversarial situation, is foreign to them. The idea that anyone could carry a gun without firing it, intentionally or accidentally, shooting them self or someone else, is preposterous. Guns go off, you know.

While they don't trust themselves, paradoxically they have an incredibly high self-opinion. They figure that if they are untrustworthy, then obviously everyone is untrustworthy. Because they doubt their own capability to handle a gun safely, they doubt everyone's.

They aren't afraid of people carrying guns, they are afraid of themselves. It's projection of their own fears and self-loathing onto others that feeds this nonsense.
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  #911  
Old June 26th, 2017, 12:11 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell
Erin Pennington is representative of the average mom at our childcare facility. I've asked several parents of our boys' friends what they thought about the new policy and they really liked it. They genuinely believe that it will make it more safe for their kids.

I googled her name and "Kansas" got her Linkedin profile:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/erin-pennington-35655337

Her title:

Quote:
Public Relations and Communications

This KSU page also came up:

http://www.k-state.edu/vpcm/staff/

Quote:
Division of Communications and Marketing

She's in the "marketing" department.
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  #912  
Old June 26th, 2017, 01:31 PM
chris snell chris snell is online now
Christopher Snell
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,379
Wow. Nice find.

This smells strongly of Astroturf.
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  #913  
Old June 26th, 2017, 02:25 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
I knew she was a pro. She was too good and said all of the right things.
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  #914  
Old July 25th, 2017, 11:32 AM
stu454 stu454 is online now
Stuart Ivie
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,176
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  #915  
Old July 25th, 2017, 11:36 AM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,287
Stu beat me to it-

Unfortunately I don't think this will help us in CA unless it goes to SCOTUS.
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  #916  
Old July 25th, 2017, 01:01 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
I think Wrenn helps us in California. It certainly doesn't hurt us. At a minimum, it's another voice out there against the Circuits that ruled against right-to-carry.

Wrenn even explicitly talks shit about Peruta:

Quote:
Finally, the Third Circuit relied on the reasoning of the Second and Fourth Circuits for its decision to submit good reason laws to intermediate scrutiny. See Drake v. Filko, 724 F.3d 426, 430 (3d Cir. 2013). The only other circuit to address the issue, the Ninth, reasoned that a good-reason limit on concealed carry must be lawful since outright bans on concealed carry have been upheld. 5 Relying on this whole includes-its-parts reasoning, the Ninth Circuit expressly sidestepped our question of “whether the [Amendment] protects some ability to carry firearms in public, such as open carry.” Peruta v. Cty. of San Diego, 824 F.3d 919, 927 (9th Cir. 2016) (en banc).

Peruta ruled that the Second Amendment does not protect concealed carry. In a way, this is a correct reading of the Second Amendment because concealed carry was never protected under Common Law, founding era law, or 19th Century law. When deciding if concealed carry should be allowed in California, the Ninth Circuit "sidestepped" the fact that open carry is also banned in California and simply ruled that the Second Amendment does not protect concealed carry. Wrenn points this out and discredits Peruta.

Quote:
We do not agree with the Ninth Circuit that a ban on concealed carry can be assessed in isolation from the rest of a jurisdiction’s gun regulations. As we’ve noted, text and history and precedent urge that the Second Amendment requires governments to leave responsible citizens ample means for self-defense at home and outside. So a regulation’s validity may turn partly on whether surrounding laws leave ample options for keeping and carrying.

That doesn't mean Peruta is going to be overturned, but it does put Peruta in a light such that other Circuits would be less likely to follow Peruta.

Another reason I like Wrenn is it categorically overturns bans instead of undergoing some tortured and labored scurtiny analysis. In this case, it was a ban on carry. Heller dealt with a ban on handguns. I like this approach and look forward to the overturning other gun bans.
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  #917  
Old July 25th, 2017, 01:10 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
Wrenn is a pretty funny case.

I like the way the opinion opens:

Quote:
Constitutional challenges to gun laws create peculiar puzzles for courts. In other areas, after all, a law’s validity might turn on the value of its goals and the efficiency of its means. But gun laws almost always aim at the most compelling goal—saving lives—while evidence of their effects is almost always deeply contested. On top of that, the Supreme Court has offered little guidance. Its “first in-depth examination of the Second Amendment” is younger than the first iPhone.

This is good too:

Quote:
Whatever the right to carry might cover, the District contends, it does not protect carrying in densely populated or urban areas like Washington, D.C. That is because the English right to bear arms had for centuries been fenced in by the Statute of Northampton, a law that banned carrying firearms in crowded areas. Indeed, Northampton-like laws had migrated to some colonies by the late 1700s, and then to several states in the mid-to-late 1800s. Thus, the District argues, the preexisting right codified by the Second Amendment did not (or did not at its core2) cover carrying in densely populated areas like D.C.

That argument pulls us—and both parties and several scholars—into dense historical weeds. The original Northampton statute took effect in 1328. Its language will faintly remind Anglophiles of studying Canterbury Tales—in the original. The rest of us may rest assured that the details of the text will matter less here than they did in English Lit:
[i]t is enacted, that no man . . . of what condition soever he be, except the king’s servants in his presence, and his ministers . . . and such as be in their company assisting them, and also [upon a cry made for arms to keep the peace, and the same in such places where such acts happen,] be so hardy to come before the King’s justices, or other of the King’s ministers doing their office, with force and arms, nor bring no force in affray of the peace, nor to go nor ride armed by night nor by day, in fairs, markets, nor in the presence of the justices or other ministers, nor in no part elsewhere, upon pain to forfeit their armour to the King, and their bodies to prison at the King’s pleasure.

This shit-talking of the Second Circuit is gold:

Quote:
The Second Circuit also finds that carrying outside the home matters less based on analogies to other individual rights. Thus, it asks: if our law “[t]reat[s] the home as special” when it comes to sexual privacy rights, why not when enforcing the right to use a gun? Kachalsky, 701 F.3d at 94. But of course, sex is different. In Judge Posner’s wry understatement, “the interest in having sex inside one’s home is much greater than the interest in having sex on the sidewalk in front of one’s home,” while the need to fend off violence might arise on sidewalks and in bedrooms alike. Moore v. Madigan, 702 F.3d 933, 941 (7th Cir. 2012).
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  #918  
Old July 25th, 2017, 01:35 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,287
I'm certain that Wrenn provides additional "ammunition" against Ninth's rulings and many of the laws here in CA that actively seek to limit if not ban 2A protections.

But that doesn't stop the seriously activist legislators who truly hate the 2A and will write new, nonsensical laws even though they know they are unconstitutional.

Who can forget this gem?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A
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  #919  
Old July 26th, 2017, 09:20 AM
kevinp kevinp is online now
Kevin Price KJ6NII
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 274
If I have the chronology right, when Peruta was filed, unloaded open carry was still legal in CA. Part of the State's argument was, "you don't need concealed carry: if you want to carry a gun, you can always carry openly." Then they outlawed open carry, and had to abandon the argument on appeal.
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  #920  
Old July 26th, 2017, 09:30 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
I can't remember the exact chronology either. But one thing I do remember is that we never challenged the unloaded open carry either (asking for loaded open carry). Rather, we always went for concealed carry instead.

For reasons I can understand, the Alan Guras, Paul Clements, Cato Institute, Second Amendment Foundation, NRA, and so on have always fought for concealed carry rather than open carry. Their "I have to right to concealed carry because open carry is illegal in this state" argument worked in the 7th Circuit. But it didn't fly in the 9th Circuit.
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  #921  
Old July 26th, 2017, 02:55 PM
kevinp kevinp is online now
Kevin Price KJ6NII
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 274
I like their strategy. Open carry is for activists and gun store owners. Concealed is for normal people who just want to go about their business. Unless you're in uniform, open carry scares people. Concealed carry doesn't.
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