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  #26  
Old March 21st, 2008, 07:56 AM
dchapman dchapman is offline
Daniel Chapman
KJ4BXR
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 1,117
I took a class 5-years ago at the U.S. Training & Development Center in Harrisonburg, VA. It looks to be structured a little differently that what Front Sight is doing. We had 2-days of classroom (6-hours total) and a 3rd day, 3-hours, of hands-on. Our shooting was limited to an indoor 30-yard range with stationary and moving targets.

Myself and two of my buddies still gather at the shooting range about once every 1.5 months to fire some shots.

I kind of wonder how I would do in a Steel Challenge type event. It does not seem to be something I'd be interested in on a regular basis, but I'd like to try it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAsoQmCwT7U
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  #27  
Old March 21st, 2008, 09:19 AM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSQ
We shot three 6-round attempts at three different target presentations. A number of shooters participated in a two-gun shoot with shotgun and pistol on the same targets. Although the format for the shooting was the same for each shooter, how you chose to shoot was not strictly regulated. This was the reason I was there.


That sounds almost ideal. You could practice speed reloads and tactical reloads, as well as the presentations. Heck, you could practice dozens of things on that line.

I'm also glad you dusted the chumps there, even with their race guns and speed holsters and whatever. That's sweet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JSQ
As Brad Ackerman said at Front Sight, "After attending Front Sight you will be more skilled than 99% of the gun-owning population including those that carry a gun for a living." It sounded like a bit of an exaggeration at the time, but it certainly was the case last night at the Steel Challenge.


It's Ackman. ACKMAN:


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  #28  
Old March 21st, 2008, 10:34 AM
willroeder willroeder is offline
Will Roeder
KI4PLZ
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 104
Very cool stuff. I've been wanting to take a class like this pretty badly. But, my Navy recruiter strongly suggested against it in case I do end up going to BUD/S. They prefer that people come in to BUD/S with no weapons training, apparently.
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  #29  
Old March 21st, 2008, 11:49 AM
dchapman dchapman is offline
Daniel Chapman
KJ4BXR
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 1,117
I heard a police shooting instructor say once that typically the "newbie" shooter often out shoots the "experienced" shooter in his classes.

His reasoning was that people familiar with handguns pick up bad habits when shooting. Then, when learning the "right way" to shoot, he thinks, it becomes uncomfortable or just too different.

It may be that your recruiter just does not want you to pick up bad form. Or, maybe not even bad form, but a style of shooting different from that of what they would like you to know.
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  #30  
Old March 21st, 2008, 11:51 AM
willroeder willroeder is offline
Will Roeder
KI4PLZ
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 104
Yea, I'm sure thats it. Don't want me to go in with bad habits/form other than what they want.

Although, I'm already a fairly experienced shooter, and i'm sure i've already got a ton of bad habits.
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  #31  
Old March 21st, 2008, 07:23 PM
ryanspeed
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSQ
The Marines came over and asked me what my rank was. Others assumed I was law enforcement.

Did you still have the Mystery Ranch pack on?
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  #32  
Old March 22nd, 2008, 11:46 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
No.
I was evaluting the Ranger assault pack as a potential bug-out bag in Anza Borrego and I decided to take it to Front Sight to use as a range bag. While training there I wore the pack a few times while shooting to mix it up a bit. I did not wear the pack during my Steel Challenge match.

It's a good pack.
I like the design and only have a few complaints.

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  #33  
Old March 22nd, 2008, 02:29 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,287
Looks like a very worthwhile class.

I could certainly benefit from some professional training like that. I need to schedule some time.
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  #34  
Old March 22nd, 2008, 05:20 PM
montanablur montanablur is offline
Sinuhe Xavier
yes
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Neither here, nor there...
Posts: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSQ
No.
I was evaluating the Ranger assault pack as a potential bug-out bag in Anza Borrego and I decided to take it to Front Sight to use as a range bag.

It's actually a 3 Day Assault Pack... For those that aren't familiar, Mystery Ranch was started by Dana Gleason the founder of Dana Designs in Bozeman, Montana. During the late 80's and well into the 90's Dana's packs were the Holy Grail of backpacks. Being a good capitalist Dana sold his company to K2 Skis, who moved production to Vashon Island, WA and later China, killing the brand. Once his no-compete contract was up Dana, knowing he was a one trick pony, opened Mystery Ranch. His biggest client is now the U.S. military, and the 3 Day Assault was designed to the U.S. Navy SEAL's specifications. It is currently widely used by the Navy and Air Force in the conflicts in the Middle East.
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  #35  
Old March 22nd, 2008, 05:30 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by greghirst
I could certainly benefit from some professional training like that. I need to schedule some time.


Man, let's go. I had planned on taking a long gun course next, but I'll gladly retake the four-day pistol class with you if you go. I'm trying to get Ho to go as well. We should do a group trip to Front Sight. It'll be fun.
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  #36  
Old March 22nd, 2008, 05:31 PM
willroeder willroeder is offline
Will Roeder
KI4PLZ
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 104
Thats a great pack. I own one and love it.
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  #37  
Old March 22nd, 2008, 07:02 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,287
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
Man, let's go. I had planned on taking a long gun course next, but I'll gladly retake the four-day pistol class with you if you go. I'm trying to get Ho to go as well. We should do a group trip to Front Sight. It'll be fun.

I would really like to take a Front Sight or Gunsite class but the earliest I could probably do that would be late summer or fall.

I think I will take one or two local two-day classes just to work on some basic skills. Not sure of the quality of instruction though.

http://www.ftatv.com/page/classes

I think this would be an interesting class but it is only rarely available and seems to be booked immediately when it is:

http://www.ftatv.com/page/classes/automatic_weapons

Also:

http://www.ftatv.com/page/classes/fo...omatic_weapons

Last edited by greghirst : March 22nd, 2008 at 07:07 PM.
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  #38  
Old March 23rd, 2008, 06:17 AM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
Man, let's go. I had planned on taking a long gun course next, but I'll gladly retake the four-day pistol class with you if you go. I'm trying to get Ho to go as well. We should do a group trip to Front Sight. It'll be fun.

I'm in.
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  #39  
Old March 23rd, 2008, 11:51 AM
sheki sheki is offline
David Shechter
KC2PFB
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 571
Me too!

Need to find the deal like these guys found. I'm good to go pretty much whenever.
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  #40  
Old March 23rd, 2008, 03:11 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
Man, let's go. I had planned on taking a long gun course next, but I'll gladly retake the four-day pistol class with you if you go. I'm trying to get Ho to go as well. We should do a group trip to Front Sight. It'll be fun.

I'm down to go back for pretty much any class.

I would gladly repeat the handgun course with my M&P or take a long gun course while the new guys take handgun.
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  #41  
Old March 23rd, 2008, 09:13 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,287
Crap. I'd rather not miss out.

Well, let me know when and I'll see if I can swing it.
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  #42  
Old March 24th, 2008, 08:11 AM
mtnrovr mtnrovr is offline
Ryan Tolentino
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 174
I'd love to go too! So ditto to what Greg said.
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  #43  
Old March 24th, 2008, 03:29 PM
blued2
 
Posts: n/a
I'd be interested as well. I have taken several basic classes in firearms safety in GA and LA but never anything like Front Sight.


Doug Goff
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  #44  
Old April 11th, 2008, 10:37 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
I've been keeping up with Steel Challenge every week. It's turned out to be good practice. In order to add a little stress and difficulty I've been purposely sandbagging my time by starting each cycle of the stages with a contrived malfunction. I holster my pistol with a Type 2, Type 3 or emergency reload and at the buzzer point in and feel dead trigger. I then perform the look-check-sidestep and clear the malfunction and go right to shooting.

Lock. Strip. Rack rack rack. Insert. Rack.

Bang bang bang bang bang bang.

Finish with an after action drill.

This really puts the pressure on and keeps me focused on my technique more than playing the "game." The nice thing is that the guys who run the match and the other shooters are totally cool with it. They let me do my thing.

I've also shot mini-IPSC and mini-IDPA matches at the same indoor range. The IPSC was a bit much with a shitload of targets presented in really unrealistic odd ways. The IDPA was much better with good targets and shooting from cover/concealment. In IDPA you get docked points for doing things like reloading outside of cover, dropping a magazine with rounds in it or stopping on the move to shoot. This makes a lot of sense to me.
Last night I shot a mini-IDPA man-on-man match. It was the best yet. Lots of pressure and competition, lots of rounds going down range and lots of difficult target accquistion. We shot both scored paper targets and metal poppers from high and low cover/concealment. The scoring for the man-on-man made a lot of sense and the guys running the match are constantly adjusting the pairs so you are always shooting against someone at your skill level to keep the pressure on.
I still found that people took shortcuts to score better which one wouldn't want to do in a life or death situation, but overall it was very good. I just shoot the matches the way I think trains best and don't sweat the score. Interestingly I've consistently placed in the top third.

Some of the other guys who attend were telling me about IDPA matches where you pull your pistol out of a microwave or leave all your magazines on a table and run back each time you reload. Luckily we haven't done any ridiculous shit like that.
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  #45  
Old April 11th, 2008, 01:03 PM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,625
I will have to drive down there one Thursady evening.
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  #46  
Old April 22nd, 2008, 03:19 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
Since we've been talking about technique and practice I thought I'd post these pics which are totally absent of either.

They come from the absolute cutting edge of unskilled welfare in any conflict around the world: Liberia.

My draw drops every time I see footage of these street battles for Monrovia which literally feature dance steps and singing mixed in with the fighting. No joke.

You guys will just have to make do with some stills featuring feather dusters, capes and life vests along with some pheonmenal gunslinging.




























Mahdi Army? Al Aqsa Martyr Brigade? Janjaweed?

They've got nothing on these Liberians.
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  #47  
Old April 22nd, 2008, 08:59 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,070
The Fault:




Leading severely with the support-side foot. (We all have our faults.)

The Cure:




Shoot and dry practice with that snub in your left hand thousands and thousands of times. I can guarantee that your stance will even out over time.
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  #48  
Old April 23rd, 2008, 12:45 PM
thomaskimura thomaskimura is offline
Thomas Kimura
N6BZ
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSQ

Mahdi Army? Al Aqsa Martyr Brigade? Janjaweed?

They've got nothing on these Liberians.

Yikes...
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  #49  
Old May 3rd, 2008, 08:33 AM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,625
Shotgun 260

Just got back from a week at Gunsite. More to come...

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  #50  
Old May 3rd, 2008, 12:46 PM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,625
I love this photo. Kirk is a retired Navy Seal, a really nice guy and a hell of an instructor. Notice the "ear plugs".

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