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  #101  
Old May 15th, 2008, 05:21 AM
Eric Siepmann
 
Posts: n/a
Kung Fu theatre indeed.

The GS didn't look too impressive. The handler shouldn't be giving hand signals in that situation. And the dog broke the command as well. The dog didn't really have any vigor in the bite. His entry was a little slow and his bite looked somewhat shallow. C+ at best.

EwS
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  #102  
Old May 15th, 2008, 03:50 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Location: San Diego
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That video was simply awesome.

I was really hoping they were going to have the K-9 take down the metroid-looking EOD dude.
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  #103  
Old May 16th, 2008, 07:48 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
... the five elements of the Modern Technique of the Pistol:

1. Weaver Stance
2. Flash Sight Picture
3. Compressed Surprise Break
4. Presentation
5. Heavy-Duty Self-Loading Pistol


Jack Weaver describes the development of the Weaver Stance:


At 2:51 of the video you can see the photo of a young Jack Weaver shooting man-on-man against another shooter using point shooting. (Jeff Cooper is seated between them.) When the Big Bear Leatherslap started, the accepted technique was point shooting, presumably on the ground that it was faster than aimed shooting. Everyone used point shooting. Even Jack Weaver's first attempt with two hands was point shooting.

But Jack Weaver and his Weaver Stance proved that aimed shooting is actually the fastest way to get hits. Advocates of point shooting always claim that it is faster. But somehow their idea of history is blind to the developments in combat pistol shooting in the 1950s. That was half a decade ago, but the Krav Maga guys still haven't heard about it.
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  #104  
Old May 16th, 2008, 08:25 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,068
You can tell homeboy went to Front Sight:


You can homeboy didn't:

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  #105  
Old May 22nd, 2008, 12:25 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Oh man, that second chump is just painful to watch.
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  #106  
Old May 22nd, 2008, 12:27 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
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Tom is shooting his first Mini-IPSC match with me tonight.

Last week Rick Peterson joined us for his first Steel Challenge. The week before John came down for the Man-On-Man match. There's starting to be quite a bit of Land Rover love in the Iron Sights parking lot on Thursday nights.
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  #107  
Old May 24th, 2008, 12:20 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
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Rick and Tom both shot the mini-IPSC match along with myself at the range last night.

Here's a vid that one of the competitors filmed of the match:


I shoot the 1st stage at 4:37 and the 3rd stage at 9:08.

You can see in the first stage a turning target was employed to give two presentations. This target was set at a very awkward angle for right handed shooters and many people bumped the cover/concealment or couldn't get good shot on the target. All of these shooters engaged this target with the same firing grip as the others. I opted to transition to a strong side only firing stance for that target with good results.

In the last stage there were a lot of targets and therefore many reloads (this format requires 10-round magazines rather than hi-caps). I opted to perform tactical reloads where possible and an emergency when necessary. This seemed to serve pretty well.

Like most IPSC this match is a bit contrived, but like anything it's what you make of it. My only regret is that the match officials want you to show clear as soon as you are finished shooting so they prefer you don't perform after-action drills. At steel challenge you are free to do the after-action. A small draw back, but I can make up for it with other practice.

Unfortunately this video seems to only include the runs of the regular top guns and as such neither Tom or Rick are featured.
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  #108  
Old May 24th, 2008, 12:36 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Here's a clip that the same competitor filmed of steel challenge:


I shoot at 2:02.
You see that I shoot some of the strings by starting with a type 1 or type 2 malfunction. If you look closely you'll see that while I successfully correct the malfunction, I make a few mistakes or don't perform the drill completely.

You'll also see some of the race guns and shotguns in the rest of the footage.
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  #109  
Old May 24th, 2008, 12:37 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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In case you didn't notice, this guy also has a vid of the lions lounging on the RRC at the Wild Animal Park.
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  #110  
Old May 24th, 2008, 05:10 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,068
Great videos.

I noticed something in the vids about your tiger technique. It's a problem I have as well. I think both you and I have to work on our loading. Whether it's administrative loads, tactical reloads, speed reloads, or emergency reloads, both of us have a tendency to look down at our guns. I think it's a very bad habit.

I'm certainly not immune from doing it:


Jeff Cooper would not approve.
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  #111  
Old May 24th, 2008, 05:47 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Agreed.

When I dry practice I use the force and never look.
When it's game time, I start cheating.
It's gotta stop.
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  #112  
Old May 28th, 2008, 07:52 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,068
No way.

Leilani's on YouTube:


And the student with some dry presentations and after-action drills:


A little quick on the resholstering but nice. Homeboy uploaded that in November 2007.

Homeboy uploaded this video on April 2008:


He's a good shot, but I think he forgot the after-action and movement a few months after his Front Sight class.
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  #113  
Old June 2nd, 2008, 01:57 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
Tom and I wanted to try some practice in a more open format, so we built ourselves some target frames and headed out to a local public area which permits shooting.

Our goal was to perform Front Sight type drills with the carbine and work on some Gabe Suarez type gunfighting skill with both carbine and pistol. I specifically wanted to engage targets at both close and medium range on the move and work on transitions from long gun to pistol. We also worked on magazine changes and malfunction drills with the carbines and practiced our new after-action drill steps with both weapons. Furthermore, we wanted to practice with some of our more awkward gear.

Shooting the matches at Iron Sights has been very helpful, but it has it's limitations and we needed a big area where we could shoot different drills.


Tom sets up our target stands with a couple Dr. P targets:




Tom's Bushmaster patrol carbine and my Ruger 180 Mini-14:


Tom delivers rounds "Mozambique" drills with his AR:




Tom checks six after engaging the target. (Check out how Tom channels the federal-agent-on-a-raid look. Lol.):


I take my turn on the Mozambique drill with the Mini-14. (I on the other hand seem to prefer the wannabe-Iraq-contractor style):


Still room for improvement:


Next we ran the Gabe Suarez pistol movement drills. To the right with support hand, to the left strongside only. I have a go:




And then Tom:




Tom uses the "sul" position to check six. (He needs to bring the elbows in tighter and get rid of the chicken wing, but he's looking good):


Tom carries his extra carbine magazines FBI-raid-style:


Tom engages these two targets at different distances on the move and static:




I practice some loading and malfunction drills:






We each work on firing with lots of movement:




My pistol set-up:


I practiced transition to pistol two different ways. I wanted to do both drills with constant movement a la Gabe Suarez and I found that neither African carry or American carry were very stable. Instead I ran the carry strap on the carbine through the retention on the vest and either brought the carbine down in front of me with the support hand or used both support and firing to bring it up and over and sling the rifle across my back.

Slung loose in front:






Slung across the back:






Each has advantages over the other. I think you need to know both, plus a few others.

Tom and I got in a pretty good practice session and we got to try out some stuff we just can't do at the indoor range. Hopefully we will stay motivated to get out again soon.
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  #114  
Old June 2nd, 2008, 02:14 PM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,625
How did you recover the Mini 14 after it was swung around onto your back? I ask because at Gunsite we talked about and played with a couple ways to recover the weapon (in our case a shotgun) and it was pretty much impossible to do so without covering an awful lot with the muzzle.

The basic strategy that we went over (not saying that it is the "end-all" strategy) in the case of a long arm malfunction: over the neck, draw the sidearm, fight ones way to cover, clear the malfunction and continue with the long arm.

Pretty much the only time the shotgun went over the back was if one was out of ammunition or if the malfunction could not be cleared.
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  #115  
Old June 2nd, 2008, 02:19 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSQ
I on the other hand seem to prefer the wannabe-Iraq-contractor style:



Oh man. You are so contractor'd out. Even the nomex gloves are there.

You just need the unshaven face and the Sub or Sea Dweller on the wrist and you will have the look down pat.
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  #116  
Old June 2nd, 2008, 02:25 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by traveltoad
How did you recover the Mini 14 after it was swung around onto your back? I ask because at Gunsite we talked about and played with a couple ways to recover the weapon (in our case a shotgun) and it was pretty much impossible to do so without covering an awful lot with the muzzle.

The basic strategy that we went over (not saying that it is the "end-all" strategy) in the case of a long arm malfunction: over the neck, draw the sidearm, fight ones way to cover, clear the malfunction and continue with the long arm.

Pretty much the only time the shotgun went over the back was if one was out of ammunition or if the malfunction could not be cleared.

To recover the Mini-14 after it was slung across my back, I grabbed the bbl with my support hand, then reached across with my firing hand and grabbed the magazine. From there I brought the weapon back over my shoulder and head using the magazine to keep the carbine oriented down range.

I practiced the two transition techniques (slung from retention in front and slung across the back) following a bolt-hold-open empty gun rather than a malfunction.
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  #117  
Old June 2nd, 2008, 02:34 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
Oh man. You are so contractor'd out. Even the nomex gloves are there.

You just need the unshaven face and the Sub or Sea Dweller on the wrist and you will have the look down pat.

It's true.

I think Aaron drank the koolaid at Gunsite and started dressing like an Instructor:


And I watched this lame clip too many times and gave in to the subliminal messaging:



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  #118  
Old June 2nd, 2008, 07:04 PM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,625
Koolaid....goooood....
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  #119  
Old June 2nd, 2008, 08:33 PM
DCWhybrew DCWhybrew is offline
Chris Whybrew
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 88
Why are you two wearing those vests? Richocets?
____________________
Chris
06 LR3 SE

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  #120  
Old June 2nd, 2008, 08:55 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,068
Yeah. Ricochets.
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  #121  
Old June 3rd, 2008, 03:22 AM
KevinNY
 
Posts: n/a
Tsk, tsk Jack, action closed with a mag inserted and leaning on a vehicle??

I'm not trying to be a D**k about that to call you out or anything, it's just one way for accidents to happen. I've been around 2 AD's in my life and thats way to many.

I was invited to an event at the Orvis Sandanona Shooting Grounds in Millbrook, NY next week for a corporate gig and then some sporting clays afterwards, should be a nice day out. It gives just enough time to drive home and make the MDA Cigar Night Banquet, quite a relaxing day.
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  #122  
Old June 3rd, 2008, 06:51 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNY
Tsk, tsk Jack, action closed with a mag inserted and leaning on a vehicle??

I wonder what bothers KevinNY so much about this image?:


Apparently it's because he can't tell that the Mini-14 is unloaded. He can't tell that the AR-15 doesn't have a round in the chamber either for that matter. Now I know, that carbines didn't happen to be loaded in that pic, but as far as I'm concerned I'm happy to assume they are.
Why?
Because they should be.
As Jeff Cooper would remind us, what is the point of an unloaded gun? A gun needs ammunition to function. You don't walk around assuming that every car you get into has no gas, do you?
No you don't. A car should have gas in it and a gun should be loaded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNY
I'm not trying to be a D**k about that to call you out or anything, it's just one way for accidents to happen.


If KevinNY isn't trying to be a dick, it doesn't change the fact that he is one.
Not because he "called me out" on some error, but because he's trying to be Mr. Highroad GunSafety to try to show he's knowledgeable, when he's obviously a total gun wannabe. KevinNY should shoot with this DCWhybrew chump. Apparently they have a lot of the same anxieties. Maybe Kevin can take Chris on one of his lame-ass Great White Hunter African safaris. Or maybe they can just ride around in Kevin's junk-o-saurus bread-van-powered series-coiler monstrosity and trade hunter safety stories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNY
I've been around 2 AD's in my life and thats way to many.

Interesting.
I've never been around any accidental discharges.
I've witnessed a few negligent discharges, but I've never seen a gun just go off "by accident" all by itself with nobody at fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNY
I was invited to an event at the Orvis Sandanona Shooting Grounds in Millbrook, NY next week for a corporate gig and then some sporting clays afterwards, should be a nice day out. It gives just enough time to drive home and make the MDA Cigar Night Banquet, quite a relaxing day.

Oh shit!
Better be careful there, KevinNY!
Hopefully they don't have any dangerous contraptions like this on that Orvis SC course:


More unattended guns with closed actions!!!
Looks like "it's just one way for accidents to happen".
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  #123  
Old June 3rd, 2008, 06:58 AM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,625
Jack what was in the bag hanging on the left side of your vest?
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  #124  
Old June 3rd, 2008, 07:08 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by traveltoad
Jack what was in the bag hanging on the left side of your vest?

That's a drop bag for partially expended magazines and loose rounds.

It's the same one I recommended might work for you for loose shotshells at Gunsite. I think you're sporting it in this pic:


I like to retain the partially expended carbine magazines somewhere quick but accessible, as in a tactical reload for instance. With empty magazines I try to either discard the empty magazines or put them somewhere I'm not likely to grab them and try to reinsert them, like in a firing side back pocket. You can see an empty printing in my right-hand back pocket in this pic:


Last edited by JSQ : June 3rd, 2008 at 07:13 AM.
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  #125  
Old June 3rd, 2008, 07:12 AM
KevinNY
 
Posts: n/a
Why the venom Jack, I'm sure you are an OK guy, we'd probably get along swimmingly.

Accidental discharge is a common term, no need to be Bill Clinton and debate the semantics. Why rip my truck too? No one could tell by that pic that either of those carbines are unloaded, just because the dust cover is closed and there is no mag in the AR does not mean there is no round in the chamber. Have a cup of coffee it's early in CA I guess. Give me a call if you want to talk, I'll send ya my number.

Edit: I see PM'ing has been disabled so I can't send you my number but seriously, I'd be interested in talking

Emailed you
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