Expedition Exchange Bulletin Boards  

Go Back   Expedition Exchange Bulletin Boards > General
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old January 18th, 2009, 06:23 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,153
Love the Beretta 1201. It comes factory with the long magazine, the way the Super 90 used to. And yet for some reason it looks more innocent than a Super 90. The 1201 is basically a re-badged Super 90. Both are great guns.

If you want something a little more classico, these trench guns are on sale on Calguns right now:


At top is a Stevens and bottom is a Model 12. Just look at that beautiful forend on the Stevens and the funky front sling swivels on both weapons.

Here's a better view of the Model 12's forward sling swivel:


If you want the entire package, there are three 1911A1s with the shotguns:


A Model 1917 would also go well with the trench guns:


Slap the loop slings on the trench guns and a lanyard on the pistols and you'll be ventilating people with great style.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old January 18th, 2009, 07:35 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,290
It's WWI all over again.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old January 20th, 2009, 01:17 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,153
For sale right now on Calguns:


Quote:
Ithaca mod. 37 DSPS 12ga w/8 shot tube 95% pump shotgun, this is the early model that allows the shooter to hold down the trigger and shoot as you pump. stock has a stylized JAF(?) engraved in it $400

Beautiful.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old January 20th, 2009, 05:23 PM
Nadir_E
 
Posts: n/a
Seem to recall hearing those were popular for that rack-fire capability back in the day. Never used one - no idea how well that really worked.

Home boy has a tripod, too - wonder what he's got mounted on it - maybe an M1919....
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old January 20th, 2009, 07:00 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,153
What's also weird about California law is that I think the M1919, at least in semi-auto form, is legal to own in California. Some guy on Calguns owns one and he got it post-2000.

It sort of makes some sense, because the M1919 isn't a rifle. It has no buttstock and it's not fired from the shoulder. It's certainly not a pistol. And it's not a shotgun. I think it falls into the AOW (Any Other Weapon) realm. But I think it's legal to own.

Same for the M2. Don't take this to the bank, but I think the ban on the .50 BMG in California pertains only to rifles. It doesn't cover weapons like the semi-auto M2.

I think these weapons are legal to own so long as they're fed with belts of 10 rounds or less.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old January 20th, 2009, 11:07 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,490
I believe the semi-auto variants of weapons like the 1919 and M2 are legal to own, because they are "crew served".
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old January 22nd, 2009, 04:02 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,490
Oh man, look out, Benelli has gone super Hollywood:

http://www.benelliusa.com/vinci/vinci_portal.php
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old January 26th, 2009, 12:18 PM
sheki sheki is offline
David Shechter
KC2PFB
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 571
right down to the big breasted (fake of course) model running at the end of the promo.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old January 28th, 2009, 10:34 AM
dchapman dchapman is offline
Daniel Chapman
KJ4BXR
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 1,121
I got a call this AM from a buddy (who is an EE customer). Last night, he had an "attempted robbery" at his home.

This was not the first time, though.

About 3-months ago, he was hit and the robbers stole a truck load of shit. Not only did they take his tools, but they took his tool box; plus two flat screen TV's, receivers, and other A/V equipment.

On the first robbery, the robbers broke into both his detached garage/shop, and his attached garage which is directly off his master bed-room.

Of course his wife went nuts.... So he installed an alarm system on all the doors and windows, and also installed a camera system to watch the property.

So last night, the alarm goes off. It's just a "beeping" noise inside the house, and not a full-blown siren... Well the home owner gets up, checks his key pad and sees that the detached garage had a fault. He looks out his window and sees several guys in his shop.

My buddy grabbed a cordless phone and a shotgun, and called 911. As he's talking to the 911 dispatcher, he's watching his stuff get unloaded from his garage. The guys are just stacking all his shit outside in the driveway, including his brand new toolbox and tools. They even ripped the speakers out of his disco.

Apparently the cops were not far away as they got there before the robbers took off. But of course, as soon as they saw the cop car, they started to move. That's where my buddy came out, shotgun in hand, and chased the robbers into some woods where they ended up getting away.

The cops ended up bringing out some dogs, but they did not do a lot of good. They did, however, find a 4-wheeler ditched in the woods, and it's believed to have belonged to the robbers. It's now sitting on the impound lot.

The cops also found some other evidence that may lead to a suspect.

Anyway, question is, what do you do? You've got a shotgun in your hand, you're awake enough to know WTF is going on, and some people are taking your shit. What if the cops were not so close and the robbers started to leave with your shit?

In this case, I guess my buddy did the right thing (I think). He waited it out and the cops were able to see that something was going down. He was observing at a distance (30 yards) and had a barrier between him and the intruders (brick wall). I guess it's safe to say he was not in harms way or threatened. But what if they were in his attached garage again? Would you come out blasting, or wait to see if they're going to come through an interior door and then start blasting?

Do you shoot to kill even if you're not sure they're armed?

What if you look out the window and see someone in your car?

How much shit could you get into if you fired a Less Than Lethal round at someone breaking and entering, but has not crossed that line, yet, into your "home"?

I'm guessing the "right" thing to do is (if you're brave enough and the cops are too far away) confront them. If they pull a gun, blast them. If they run, I guess you got to catch them....???? Unless they cross that line into your residence, then you can blast them whether they have a weapon or not???
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old January 28th, 2009, 11:12 AM
traveltoad traveltoad is online now
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,628
Property is insured.
____________________
2003 Discovery
2007 KTM 950R Super Enduro - FOR SALE
2010 KTM 250XC-W
2016 SoulCraft Dirtbomb
2016 FoundryOverland

You only lost went running out o gas ,the rest is exploring Javier

Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old January 28th, 2009, 11:21 AM
ronward ronward is offline
KI4WWU
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 739
Tough call. Your buddy got lucky with the cops and his cover and the fact that these dudes were only after his "stuff" and not planning a home invasion type of thing.

I've thought about it a lot, and I think if I discovered someone in my detached garage in the middle of the night in the act of stealing or preparing to steal something, or just loitering about I would first call 911 to alert them of an intruder, and then go out there with one of the loaded shotguns. I would probably shoot at one of them if they made any aggressive movement in my direction. My purpose would be to hold them until police arrive.

If this were taking place in my home, to be honest, I don't know what I would do as I have kids upstairs, and huge barking dog, and a wife to keep safe. My reaction upon discovering someone actually in my house, or attempting entry would also be to shoot them dead. How and with what weapon there's just so many options to know what would be best.

This is why I really want to take a Front Sight type course on home defense.

Others please chime in here. Dan, glad your buddy and his family (and stuff) are all safe and secure.

p.s. This is also why I have had a monitored security system on my house and carriage house for years, use motion-sensor and constant on flood lights on the corners of my home, have some interior lights on timers, and keep my 6 year old black lab always just a little bit hungry.
____________________
Ron Ward
1990 Range Rover Classic
& a couple nice watches

Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old January 28th, 2009, 11:46 AM
traveltoad traveltoad is online now
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,628
You need to know the gun laws of your state and city.

In many places if you shoot or even shoot at someone in your detached garage you would be the bad guy in the eyes of the law and go to jail.

Even if the shooting is found justified (legally) you could (and probably would) face other legal action from the family. Right or wrong, it is something to consider. All of this will cost you time and money, even if you do not have to pay damages. Compare those costs to your deductable.

Don't get me wrong... if my family is in danger I know exactly what I will do, without hesitation. Frontsight, press.
____________________
2003 Discovery
2007 KTM 950R Super Enduro - FOR SALE
2010 KTM 250XC-W
2016 SoulCraft Dirtbomb
2016 FoundryOverland

You only lost went running out o gas ,the rest is exploring Javier

Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old January 28th, 2009, 12:17 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,490
"Tough call."???

How the fuck is there any doubt about what to do?


If it's not worth dying for it's not worth shooting for.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old January 28th, 2009, 01:39 PM
ronward ronward is offline
KI4WWU
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 739
If he felt endangered or not, is the tough call. Wasn't there so I don't know.

Aaron's right, I should know the law and that will save me from having to guess.
____________________
Ron Ward
1990 Range Rover Classic
& a couple nice watches

Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old February 3rd, 2009, 06:45 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,153
I think this is that "JIC" Mossberg in action:

Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old February 4th, 2009, 07:23 AM
tweak tweak is offline
Darich Runyan
W4DMR
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southeast Virginia
Posts: 70
VA case law is pretty clear that if there is not a clear and present threat directly against you or your family you should not engage, of course, this is just case law, there is no official Castle Doctrine in the Commonwealth so every situation is looked at individually. Did the situation present you with the ability to safely retreat within your home, outside of your home, were you forced to stand your ground due to no safe egress, etc..

Although, I doubt that anyone could mount a very effective case here in VA that he/she was in personal danger if they approached the offenders in a detached garage essentially surprising them. This makes the homeowner the aggressor.

Of course, every State is different. My brother, for instance, lives in SC, which does have a Castle Doctrine that, from my understanding, will pretty much let him shoot anything, anywhere on his property that is threatening.

Personally, I agree with JSQ, if it isn't worth dying for don't get in a gun fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman
I got a call this AM from a buddy (who is an EE customer). Last night, he had an "attempted robbery" at his home.

This was not the first time, though.

...

I'm guessing the "right" thing to do is (if you're brave enough and the cops are too far away) confront them. If they pull a gun, blast them. If they run, I guess you got to catch them....???? Unless they cross that line into your residence, then you can blast them whether they have a weapon or not???
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old February 4th, 2009, 10:17 AM
Nadir_E
 
Posts: n/a
One *never* shoots to kill - you shoot to STOP a threat. If they die as a result, that's unfortunate, but you NEVER say to a law enforcement rep that you intended to kill someone.

As I understand it (from a Massad Ayoob class I took many years ago) the threat (here in CA at least) must be one of death or grave bodily injury - robbery doesn't cut it. That said, there is a presumption (again, here in CA) that if they're in your house (presumably not out-buildings) there is an understood threat and you can defend yourself (some states require you to retreat if you can - even out of your own home).

So, with all that said, Jack's point is right on - is it WORTH dying (or going to court) for your car speaker system? Not mine. For my loved ones? Sure thing - lots of hate going down-range in that event.

Harden your installation - make it tougher to get in and add simple things like motion-sensor lights, etc. to discourage the perps.

As for less-than-lethal - ask a lawyer, but I'd guess that would actually give the perp the right to defend himself with lethal force - "I thought he was shooting at me with a shotgun, how was I supposed to know it was only rock-salt??"

Also, it may be different in your state, but warning shots are considered negligent here in CA - either there is a threat worthy of firing your weapon or there isn't - no middle ground. If you need to warn your opponent (and why are you inviting them to your gun fight??), use your voice.

Finally - I'm not a lawyer, don't take my comments as gospel - if you're taking your life or the life of another into your hands, do your own research for your state and understand what you're getting yourself into.

-Nadir
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old February 5th, 2009, 07:09 AM
mtnrovr mtnrovr is offline
Ryan Tolentino
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 174
sound advice...
____________________
2001 Discovery
2001 F650 GS

Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old February 5th, 2009, 10:05 AM
JMH JMH is offline
Jonathan Hanson
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tucson, more or less.
Posts: 274
John, can you post that video over in the thread with the guy who doesn't want a stock on his shotgun?

Dan's friend did exactly the right thing in the circumstances. He probably shouldn't have chased the burglars, but staying inside until the cops arrived was definitely the right call.

My situation is different. I'm a bare minimum of a half-hour from the nearest sheriff officer. Probably an hour - if they don't get lost. So in a similar situation it would be entirely up to me to handle it. In that case I would certainly arm myself and confront the people involved, after dazzling them with 1,000 lumens from a Borealis. However, I certainly would not shoot unless I felt my safety was at immediate risk.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old February 5th, 2009, 10:42 AM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,153
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMH
John, can you post that video over in the thread with the guy who doesn't want a stock on his shotgun?

Sucka, this is that thread.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old February 5th, 2009, 05:10 PM
JMH JMH is offline
Jonathan Hanson
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tucson, more or less.
Posts: 274
Oh.

Never mind.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old February 7th, 2009, 01:10 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,490
Tom and I just visited a gun shop here in Arizona and found both a very nice Smith & Wesson US M1917 revolver and a Winchester 1897 shotgun with a factory 19" bbl and cyl bore. The Smith featured ALL of the proofs and designations and had both the lanyard ring and the commercial style medallion stocks. The Winchester was well worn but all orginal and looking good.

I had my 03 FFL in the Rangie so I decided to go big and get both as cash and carry purchases.

The owner of the gun shop refused the sale when she found out I have a California address.

Even though this woman acknowledged that both transactions would meet BATF federal law and Arizona state law she declared that it was the store policy not to sell to Californians under ANY circumstances.

I'm calling the BATF on monday to find out if this refusal was legit.
I don't think it was.


I'm fucking pissed.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old February 7th, 2009, 01:38 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,290
A store can set any policy they want as to who they will or won't sell to unless it can be shown to violate someone's civil rights.

In other words, they can refuse to sell to Californians unless it can be shown that the majority of Californians are of a protected class.

The BATF has nothing to do with it.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old February 7th, 2009, 01:45 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
Love the Beretta 1201. It comes factory with the long magazine, the way the Super 90 used to. And yet for some reason it looks more innocent than a Super 90. The 1201 is basically a re-badged Super 90. Both are great guns.

That's true. I have the Beretta pistol grip stock for my shotgun. It is rather ugly.

However, a few people have mounted a Super 90 pistol grip stock on the Beretta 1201FP. It actually doesn't look bad:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg smBerenelli.jpg (38.0 KB, 16 views)
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old February 7th, 2009, 08:19 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by greghirst
A store can set any policy they want as to who they will or won't sell to unless it can be shown to violate someone's civil rights.

In other words, they can refuse to sell to Californians unless it can be shown that the majority of Californians are of a protected class.

The BATF has nothing to do with it.

Interesting.
I'm curious to know where you've learned the obligations and discretions of gunshops. I don't know everything so that's why I want to call the BATF.
However, since I do hold an FFL and receive literature from the BATF, I know that an 01FFL isn't a business license. It's a lot more.
And I believe that 01FFLs have certain obligations. For instance, I believe they can't refuse to provide for a PPT.

I don't really think this is a No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service kind of issue, but I'm going to find out.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Less than 30 days... JSQ General 843 November 7th, 2017 08:40 PM
Shotgun 260 at Gunsite Academy traveltoad General 36 February 5th, 2009 08:52 AM
Gustav, Pelican and Civil Defense blued2 General 0 August 30th, 2008 05:45 PM
El Launcho david General 27 May 20th, 2004 05:06 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:23 PM.




Copyright 2001-2012 Expedition Exchange Incorporated. All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.