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  #276  
Old June 20th, 2008, 06:36 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
Even more clonage:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=9&t=238700

Vector interiors are routinely left in the white? This is unreal.

I can only guess that the exteriors aren't parkerized either. Rather, they're just painted over the white steel. This is shit.

HK roller-delayed long guns are blasted, parkerized, and then painted on the outside with the interiors remaining parkerized. The blasting and parkerizing make the surface extremely amenable to paint adherence. The parkerized surfaces are painted and the paint is baked on. I've never seen a factory HK finish peel, even after being exposed to brake cleaner, acetone, MEK, trichloroethane, PB Blaster, Kroil, bore cleaners, etc. This isn't Krylon out of spray can painted over white steel. Even where the paint is gone from abrasion and heavy use, there remain very fine portions of paint in the countless pits from the blasting and parkerizing that prevent the surface from corroding.

This is an extremely corrosion-resistant finish, and is one of the reasons the SEALs liked the MP5:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieter122
HK insides are NOT to be oiled...they are to be DRY except for the rollers.

Huh? So only the rollers are supposed to be lubricated? What about the several inches of bearing surface on the bolt carrier? You know, the same bolt carrier that slams back and forth with every shot? Unreal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieter122
i kept my V93 well lubercated too.... inside started to show RUST...even with the protective layer of oil i had applied religiously

Lubercated. Nice.

And his Vector started to rot inside even though he kept it oiled? What kind of pot metal was this thing made of? He should have used cosmoline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy774
I had a Vector come in for my birthday and the front site was canted. We sent it back but i had noticed that the inside was unfinished.

Canted front sight and white interior. What a birthday present. That sucks.
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  #277  
Old June 21st, 2008, 10:31 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
I found a page where this guy visits the HK factory:


Homeboy standing outside the hallowed gates:


And he even gets to go inside what he calls the "Patent Room". I'm not sure if that's the parlance HK uses or if he meant "Pattern Room". In either case, he got to inside.

The room starts out pretty insteresting:


At top left is an early G3 with walnut stocks. Beautiful.

Then there's the G11. Interesting.

But then that awful OICW is there to ruin it.

Then the room gets really good:


Stamped sheetmetal and roller-delayed love everywhere. Just feel the love. Feel it.

PSG1 at the top left. Just awesome.

Below the PSG1 is the MSG90A1. Note the iron sights and the flash suppressor. The standard MSG90, which is racked immediately below the MSG90A1, lacks these features.

On the right is some serious 5.56 sweetness. At top is a G33. Stunning.

Below the G33 is what appears to be an original GR series G33. The GR series are HK weapons with integral optical sights. The buttstock on this carbine doesn't look original though, as the GRs I've seen had the older, convex buttstocks. This one is fitted with the newer, concave butt shape.

Below the GR is a G33K.

Below the G33K is an HK53.

This section of the room is very solid. The only pile there is that SL9SD.

Then it gets worse again:


Locked breeches everywhere. Even the SA80 is in there. HK is actually proud that it worked on this pile? Oh the horror.

Then it gets a little better:


The MP5s on the right are pretty cool.

The second MP5 from the top looks like the MP5F, which is one of the last variants of the MP5 family. The primary differences on the MP5F are the buttstock with sling swivel and pad, ambidextrous front sling swivels, and slight internal refinements like a wire roller retainer and beefed up firing pin spring and cocking lever.

I would have liked it if the Pattern Room included the MP5-N, which HK designed specifically for the US Navy SEALs. The N variant features a threaded muzzle with detachable thread protector, pictogram trigger pack with ambidextrous selectors and without the burst function, and trijicon tritium front sight. It's a sweet MP5.

The last part of the room borders on terrible:


Sure, there's some P7 love there. But the P7s are surrounded by USPs. It look as if someone vomited on the wall. But then it just gets worse. The SL8 and SLB2000 are the clincher to the shit pile.

OK, so back to the guy who got to visit the Pattern Room. Lucky fellow, right? Indeed. So, he even gets to handle the various guns racked on the wall. Which ones does he handle? Steel yourself.

First weapon he grabs is the UMP:


His words: "Me holding a weapon that hopefully will one day be as popular as the MP5 - the UMP9."

The UMP as popular as the MP5? Don't hold your breath. The UMP is a simple blowback. It lacks the MP5's roller delay and very lightweight bolt. It jostles around during firing like any other machine pistol. It's a clunker. It's not even in the same league as the MP5. What makes the MP5 the machine pistol supreme is the roller delay and lightweight bolt. This very lightweight bolt jostles the weapon very little as it reciprocates within the receiver. It's the same thing that makes the P7 the pistol supreme.

And get your finger out of the trigger guard. You look like a chump with your finger inside the trigger guard but not touching the trigger. Your finger must get tired just posing for the photo with it floating in the air like that. Just straighten it out and rest it against the side.

His next dream gun:


"Me holding my all-time favorite prototype gun - The now-defunct OICW."

That pile of shit OICW was racked right beside the G11 and you didn't even grab the G11? Do you realize how few people in this world will ever see a real G11 in person, let alone get to handle one? And you grab what is basically a dressed up G36 with AR15 magazine adapter? Unreal.


"Me holding the beautiful SL9SD."

Beautiful? Thumbhole stock and Picatinny rail that extends even beyond the forend for those extreme optics mounts that only Elite Team Fighters are worthy of. Yeah, just stunning. That SL9SD was right next to a MSG90, G33K, and HK53. And he grabs the SL9SD?

Next weapon he grabs:


"Oh my gosh! Can you believe I'm holding a MP7. Wow, wow, wow."

Yeah, wow. Can you believe that MP7 was right beside the MP5SD and he grabbed the MP7? I can't. This sucka is zero for four.

Then, on his way home after this brilliant visit he sees this tragedy on the Autobahn:


His brilliant comment: "Some poor dude's burning car as seen from the German Autobahn on the way home."

Some dude's burning car? Does homeboy have any clue what that is? It's like seeing a burning PSG1 and saying "some dude's burning gun".

This chump is so clueless. I don't think he has any idea what he saw that day, whether in the HK factory or on the Autobahn. What a waste. At least he took pics.
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  #278  
Old June 22nd, 2008, 04:27 AM
dchapman dchapman is offline
Daniel Chapman
KJ4BXR
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 1,126
It looks like someone is sitting in the car still. Weird.
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  #279  
Old June 22nd, 2008, 09:01 AM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,290
Looks like a nice clean, unbastardized M1. Apparently fiberglass burns rather well.
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  #280  
Old June 23rd, 2008, 11:33 PM
kennith kennith is offline
kennith
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
trash can?

I don't think so. I know some very skilled gunsmiths, some of the best out there. Kel-Tec has the pistol now, but if they can't cause it to function properly, I'll send it to someone who can. I can have this weapon made to function properly. I like it, and I think it may well be worth a try.

Who cares, though? I just placed the order for the USFA. I did, however, specify a bit of pimping, I'm afraid.

I ordered the color case frame, with the blued backstrap and trigger guard, and the blued barrel. Nothing strange there. I also, however, ordered the fire blued appointments package. This form of blueing causes the metal to take on an electrified peacock blue color (my own term) and is applied to the screws and several minor parts. I also specified the slightly aged fake ivory grips and the 7.5 inch barrel with the cross pin frame.

Next time, I'll buy one of their "gunslinger" models, with the aged finish. I couldn't decide which one to purchase this time around, so I ordered the fancy model. I do intend to purchase another, however.

And, to apply to the topic of discussion, I did indeed order it in .45 Colt. It's no modern round, but they shoot straight and the recoil is quite refined in the right firearm.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #281  
Old June 24th, 2008, 06:05 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
Pictogram markings on an MP5 trigger housing:


I love the pictogram markings. You don't have to speak German to understand what's going on there.

There are several different pictogram trigger housings. That's the so-called "Navy" trigger pack, which HK designed for the US Navy SEALs. Almost every time you see a SEAL with an MP5, it will be an MP5-N.

Pictured above is the original selector, which is on the short side. One usually has to re-grip slightly to operate the selector with his strong-side thumb in the standard grip:


Or, he may operate the selector with his trigger finger or with his thumb on the strong side like this SEAL on the right:


Enough MP5 users complained about the shorty selector that Heckler & Koch later produced an extended selector for the Navy and other pictogram packs:


I'm not positive, but I believe only the port side of the ambidextrous selector is extended. I think the starboard side remains the shorty length:


HK International Training Division demonstrates with two MP5-Ns:

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  #282  
Old June 24th, 2008, 06:33 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
Some vintage HK love:


GSG9 used to be all over the HK love. Note the HK stuff everywhere. On the far left is a PSG1. MP5s strewn about, left, right, and center.

Huddle around the Mercedes:


Note the age of the car and uniforms. No SureFire love here, as this predates even Laser Products Corporation, let alone SureFire LLC. The magazines on the MP5 are the early, straight type rather than the curved type that HK produced later on.

I can't find that famous pic of this same crew driving the Mercedes and firing out the sides while the vehicle is in motion. These Mercedes sedans had the interior door trims molded to fit a MP5 at each door. How cool is that? This ain't no Crown Victoria holding holding some AR in some bracket that's screwed into the center console.

GSG9 operator with MP5SD2:


The "SD" in "MP5SD" stands for Schalldämpfer or "sound dampened". It's a suppressed version of the MP5. Ports immediately forward of the chamber reduce the velocity of standard 9mm NATO ammunition to subsonic velocities to avoid the sonic boom and quiet the operation of the MP5SD.

The magazine is a 15-shot curved type and the Hensoldt telescope is mounted using a quickly detachable STANAG claw mount. Presumably, the MP5SD is set up in this configuration for sentry or guard dog elimination.

GSG9 sniper with PSG1:


Note the old communications equipment. And yet the PSG1 doesn't look dated at all. If anything, the PSG1 still looks futuristic today.

GSG9 sniper team with PSG1s:


GSG9 armory:


I have never seen this many PSG1s in one place.
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  #283  
Old June 24th, 2008, 06:57 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
More Navy SEALs with the MP5-N:


The operator on the left has fit the A2 fixed buttstock while the other operator has the A3 telescoping buttstock. Most MP5-Ns are usually seen with A3 buttstock.

Both operators appear to be using using the thumb on the starboard side of the weapon to operate the selector. The operator on the left has selected the largest aperture for his rear sight, to suit the conversational ranges encountered during CQB operations on ships.

MP5 rear sights are different from the HK rifle sights and look like this:


Unlike the rifle sights, there is no open notch. Also, the four different apertures do not adjust for elevation changes. That is, all four apertures are concentric. They just differ in size to suit different applications.

Being a distinct model from Heckler & Koch, MP5-Ns are so marked on the top of the receiver by HK:


Here is a close-up what what an MP5-N's muzzle looks like:


To fit a sound suppressor, simply remove the thread protector:


Other sound suppressor designs mate with the three barrel lugs instead of threading on.

You can also see that the muzzle end of the barrel is left parkerized while the rest of the weapon's exterior was painted satin black. That's how HK does it. This example, however, is actually not a real MP5-N, as the HK three-lug barrels have a convex cut into the barrel between each of the three lugs. This front sight was also painted, which HK doesn't do. This one by TSC Machine is much closer to a real MP5-N:


The color is off because of the flash photography, but you get the idea. The barrel features convex cuts between each of the barrel lugs.
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  #284  
Old June 24th, 2008, 07:30 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
Some more vintage MP5 love, this time with the Special Air Service.

SAS operators practice boarding a train:


Again, this was before SureFire came out with its famous MP5 lighted forend.

The operator on the left has the A3 buttstock extended but the SAS operators are usually seen with their A3 buttstocks collapsed and utilizing the SAS' CQB technique in conjunction with the HK sling. I'm not familar with the SAS CQB technique, so I'm not sure if the SAS use this technique because it's difficult to obtain aimed fire with their gas masks on or if they believe their technique works better for running through rooms and hallways.

Note the hi-cap magazine in the second operator's Hi-Power.

SAS assault on the Iranian Embassy in London:


All three MP5s are fitted with HK slings and have their A3 buttstocks collapsed in typical SAS fashion, and their HK slings untrimmed. Presumably, the slings are left long so that the users may adjust them on the move.

You can see an extension magazine on the middle guy's Hi-Power.

This raid sort of put the MP5 on the map. I think the MP5 dates to 1964 or 1966. Whatever the exact date, it was not until Operation Nimrod that people took a step back and saw the advantages of the MP5. Before Nimrod, it was common to read among the authorities that the Uzi was the finest machine pistol in existence. Today we know better. As the MP5 became more and more popular, its virtues became better understood and more widely known.

SAS operator at Nimrod with an MP5SD:


Note the lack of a forend on this SD.

Another shot from Nimrod:


That pic is almost identical to the pic used in this HK poster:


That poster hangs in our shop bathroom. Thanks again to customer Leo Hallak for sending that sweetness our way.

I don't know the exact anniversary, but there was some anniversary of Operation Nimrod where the SAS reenacted the raid on the Iranian Embassy to celebrate their success on that day:

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  #285  
Old June 25th, 2008, 05:41 AM
ronward ronward is offline
KI4WWU
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 739
I've decided on the HK USP Compact 9mm. My choices were Glock 19, and SIG 239 9mm, and the HK USPC. I looked at the new SIG 250 9mm and it is a super light, super sweet design too. The first three are generally the same size, with the HK being just slightly shorter and more narrow than the other two, and exactly the same height as the Glock.

My friend with a FFL here in GA is pricing me a package to include a Blackhawk Serpa holster. Pics when I pick it up in the next couple of weeks.
____________________
Ron Ward
1990 Range Rover Classic
& a couple nice watches

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  #286  
Old June 25th, 2008, 06:48 AM
Scott Brady Scott Brady is offline
Scott Brady
KE7PNP
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 267
Congrats! My USP 45 has served me well for over a decade.
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  #287  
Old June 25th, 2008, 08:05 AM
thomaskimura thomaskimura is offline
Thomas Kimura
N6BZ
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 178
These pics are awesome. I love the GSG9 pics. The modern SEAL pics aren't without their charm, but pics from the glory days are just so much cooler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
Some vintage HK love:


GSG9 used to be all over the HK love. Note the HK stuff everywhere. On the far left is a PSG1. MP5s strewn about, left, right, and center.



What's the revolver in this kit?

Those green Mercedes are awesome. One can just imagine hearing the drone of the Euro-siren, the flashing blue light, and the sound of a long suppressed burst as it passes. I found this picture while I was looking for the shooting-from-car-pic:


I hope they're providing covering fire for some East German defector.
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  #288  
Old June 25th, 2008, 08:49 AM
montanablur montanablur is offline
Sinuhe Xavier
yes
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Neither here, nor there...
Posts: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronward
I've decided on the HK USP Compact 9mm.

I love mine, I shot it for the first time in a long time yesterday, going again today. Yesterday made me realize I have much to learn...
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  #289  
Old June 25th, 2008, 09:03 AM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomaskimura
What's the revolver in this kit?

I'm not sure. I see at least three revolvers there:


In the foreground, there's a round-butt revolver beside the baton and camo blanket. I'm not sure what this is. My best guess would a Smith & Wesson Model 13 (K-frame with round butt and 3" heavy barrel, the same pistol used by the FBI for a long time).

On the right and to the rear a little more are two different snubs. It's really hard to tell what these are from the pic, but I would guess Smith & Wesson Model 12 snubs (K-frame with round butt and 2" barrel). But it would just be a guess.

Here's a somewhat better pic of a GSG9 revolver:


I think that's a GSG9 Gwagen. There's a firing port in the windscreen for the MP5. I don't know if the GSG9 Gwagens had the MP5 cutouts in the doors like the sedans, but it would be very cool if they did.

You can just barely see the hammer on the guy's revolver and the shape is very Smith & Wesson. That doesn't say much though because the Smiths are the most copied revolvers around. However, I'm going to guess Model 13.

GSG9 also used the P7 for a long time:


It was awesome when GSG9 was sort of a testing ground for HK stuff. I'm not sure if that is still the case.
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  #290  
Old June 25th, 2008, 09:05 AM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
Ron, if you want a USP Compact 9mm, why not buy mine? $600.

I think I've fired it only once or twice. It's as new in the box. I have the box and the papers for it.

If you want, I can take some pics of it.
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  #291  
Old June 25th, 2008, 11:20 AM
ronward ronward is offline
KI4WWU
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 739
Please do so John, I'd like some of your great detailed and well framed/composed shots at that!
____________________
Ron Ward
1990 Range Rover Classic
& a couple nice watches

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  #292  
Old June 25th, 2008, 01:44 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,491
There are many great pics in this last series of posts, but these few are all time greats for the EE bbs:


This pic isn't that exotic or high speed but it captures a very narrow sliver of time. It is at once uniformly German across the 20th century and at the same time a precise window on the Bundeswehr years of the Cold War.



I was dying when I saw this pic. These GSG9 operators look like life-size action men with all their kit laid out before them. I feel like a kid in a toy store when I look at this pic. Everything about it is totally sweet. It's like this pic, but so much better:


The MBs, the revolvers, the spotlamps, the batons... it's all awesome, but my favorite thing in the pics are the duffle bags. To hump that kind of gear in a duffle bag was some stealthy irregular shit back then. When these guys broke out the duffles and started yanking HK it must have been a site to behold. Now the duffle is cliche. A big black duffle almost screams "GUNS!!!", but back then it was a very thoughtful change. Too cool.



How could anyone look at this pic without saving it to their hard drive. This pic is the shit. Everything in it is fucking sweet. This pic stirs as much emotion for me as this one:

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  #293  
Old June 25th, 2008, 01:48 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,491
Here are some pics of some HK MP5 users you might not have thought of before:




Those guys are RCMP.
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  #294  
Old June 25th, 2008, 01:55 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
I'm very partial to this pic:


I'm just bummed the entire armory isn't HK. The battle carbines on top look like SIG 550s and the rifles below the PSG1s are Mauser 66s.

But to see that many PSG1s in one place like that just blows me away. The PSG1's buttstock is adjustable for comb height, length of pull, buttplate cant, and buttplate height. It's so sweet to see each PSG1 configured a little differently to suit each sniper. If the buttstocks are arranged in this fashion, you can bet that each rifle is zeroed to each shooter's particular shooting style rather than the universal zero used on the G3s in the Bundeswehr.

I can just imagine a sniper walking up to the armorer and saying something like, "I'm Gunther. My rifle is PSG1 #38." And then the armorer hands PSG1 #38 to Gunther.
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  #295  
Old June 25th, 2008, 07:21 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
Some MP5 close-ups.

View from the breech end of an MP5 barrel:


The barrel is dirty from firing, but you can see that the MP5's rifling is standard land and groove rather than polygonal. The chamber features 12 flutes to ease extraction and enhance reliability in very dirty conditions. I can't recall for certain, but I believe the older MP5s had the 12 flutes and the later MP5s had 16 flutes:


It's not really necessary, but HK offers a fiendishly clever chamber brush for cleaning the chamber flutes:


The bronze bristles are slightly overside to dig into the chamber flutes, and there is a stop to prevent pressing the chamber brush into the bore.

HK also offers a breech face brush:


This brush features stiff stainless steel bristles for cleaning the carbon fouling from the breech face. This is a very handy tool, and I have one of these brushes for cleaning my HK rifles.

Top view of the MP5 magazine:


MP5 magazines look square/rectangular in cross section from the outside, but this view of the feed lips shows that the magazine tapers toward the front and the very large ribs on the front of the magazine are for structural reinforcement. As the bolt carrier speeds forward and the bolt face strips the topmost cartridge from the magazine, you can see that the magazine walls and feed lips guide the topmost cartridge toward the centerline of the chamber. Thus, there's less zig-zagging going on and cartridges want to shoot straight into the chamber and feed reliability is greatly enhanced.

Further enhancing feel reliability of the MP5 is the bolt head's shape:


Note how the area of the bolt face that surrounds the case head is not flat but rather ramped on the edges. If a cartridge should squirm around on the bolt face during the loading phase, the bolt face is shaped so as to point the cartridge point to the axis of the chamber. This is the so-called "Action 3" bolt head and is one of the product improvement features incorporated into the MP5 by Heckler & Koch engineers over the years. The original bolt face looked like this:


The original MP5 bolt head looks a lot like the rifle bolt heads.

.22LR conversion kit for the MP5:


I own the HK factory .22LR conversion kits for the HK91 and HK33, but I have never even seen the MP5 conversion kit in person. All I've seen were pics. I don't know anyone who owns one and I don't know what they're worth in terms of market value. The MP5 subcaliber conversions are far more rare than the G3, HK91, G33, and HK94 conversion kits and they're worth considerably more.

At the top is the bolt group and recoil spring. I'm far from sure, but I would guess that this .22LR conversion operates on the same principle as the rimfire conversions for the rifles. That is, the large bolt group is pushed forward by the recoil spring and remains stationary during firing and a miniature bolt within the larger bolt carrier reciprocates. I'm thinking this because those multiple recoil springs in the guide rod of this conversion look very stiff. Given the apparent rate of the recoil springs and the very size of the bolt group, I don't think .22LR could cycle this thing. But I'm not sure. I don't see any miniature recoil spring, so this giant bolt group may actually cycle. I just don't know.

Below the bolt carrier is the insert barrel. If you ever get the chance, take a look at one of these insert barrels. They're stunning. Look inside and you will see that the rifling and chamber are hammer forged and just perfect. They literally shine like a mirror. No tool marks anywhere. The insert barrels also slide into the large barrels with just the right amount of tightness. There's no major drag or grindage at all, but there's enough tension there that you know HK got it right.

Below the insert barrel are the two subcaliber magazines. The magazines are very HK270 in appearance and design, and may even be the same magazines with the plastic spacers on them so that they lock into the MP5's magazine well.

Heckler & Koch used to make .22LR conversions or dedicated .22LR versions of its weapons. This is when HK was awesome. I've seen .22LR conversions for the G3, G33, HK91, HK93, MP5/HK94, and P9S. I'm sure there are many more. HK even manufactured the .22LR conversion for the FAL. HK also manufactured dedicated .22LR versions of the G3, G33, and P7. Again, I'm sure there are many more. Those are just specimens that I've seen photos of. HK doesn't do this any longer. Today it's all about the Picatinny rails. It sucks.

You can see that the MP5SD is considerably longer than the standard MP5:


The reason, of course, is the sound suppressor. It adds considerable length. The MP5SD's actual barrel, however, is very short. When the sound suppressor is detached, the barrel doesn't even protrude beyond the front sight:


Here is a pic of the MPSD's unique barrel design:


You can see the ports immediately in front of the chamber. The ports are quite large and numerous and bleed a good amount of gas pressure, which reduces the velocity of standard 9mm NATO ammunition to below the speed of sound. The MP5SD was conceived and designed before the widespread use of heavy, subsonic 9mm Luger ammunition, so the idea of reducing the 9mm to .380 power levels made sense at the time.

Here's what the inside of the MP5SD's sound suppressor looks like:


I know very little about sound suppressors because I can't own one in California and I'm not really interested in them anyway. But from what I gather, the MP5SD's suppressor is an antiquated design.

You can imagine how this particular suppressor works. As the projectile exits the barrel at subsonic speeds (because its velocity was reduced by the porting of the barrel immediately forward of the chamber) and passes through the baffles, the propellant gasses are diverted by the baffles into the suppressor. Thus, when the gasses eventually do exit, they exit with less temperature and velocity than if they had exited out of a standard muzzle.

I really dig the construction of the baffles. They look stamped to me, and I dig how they are welded together to form the overall structure. Very cool.

Cross section of the MP5SD's sound suppressor threaded onto the barrel:


Beautiful.

It's sort of funky how the propellant gasses ported out of the barrel go into that larger chamber rather than into the rest of the suppressor's body. The huge increase in volume and loss of temperature is sufficient to slow down the projectile to subsonic velocities I guess.

Nice angle of the older, straight MP5 magazines:


I love the corrugated look that the straight MP5 magazines had. Somehow, they look more sinister than the curved type. According to HK, they switched to the curved type to enhance feeding of hollowpoint ammunition and other irregular projectile shapes.

MP5 double magazine clamp:


Swing the lever so that it sits transverse to the magazines and the clamp will loosen and the magazines will fall free.

You will see many different MP5 operators using the double magazine clamp. Standard procedure at HK International Training Division is to locate the magazine clamp at the place where your hand would grab the magazines during loading to prevent shifting of the magazines within the clamp.

Cock the cocking handle and lock it open. Then insert the primary magazine so that the spare magazine is on the starboard side of the weapon if you are right-handed. Then tug on the primary magazine to ensure the magazine is seated correctly. Release the cocking handle to chamber a round.

When swapping magazines, first lock back the cocking handle. If there was a round in the chamber, then it eject and forget about it. Your life is not worth a round. Grab the magazines at the clamp, depress the paddle magazine release, pull down on the depleted magazine, insert the spare magazine, then give a tug on the magazine to ensure you seated the spare magazine correctly. Release the cocking lever to chamber a round.

The depleted magazine will now be on the port side of the weapon. If you ever reach for a reload and see or feel that the "spare" magazine is on the port side, that's a signal to reach for another magazine or another pair of magazines when you reload.

Like other HK magazines, MP5 magazines are date coded:


The date code for magazines is as follows:

ABCDEFGHIJ
0123456789

The date code on this magazine is "IE", so this magazine was manufactured in 1984.

Note that the magazine date code differs from the date code on items that are proofed like bolt heads, receivers, barrels, and so on. For items that are proofed, the date code is as follows:

ABCDEFGHIK
0123456789

Notice that the J on the magazine date code was replaced by a K. You will see the J date code on magazines but never on items that are proofed because "J" is a proof mark:

Name:  95418406.R9UlW5sx.J_proof.jpg
Views: 161
Size:  26.9 KB

Typical German proofs have the "N" or "V" below the eagle, but there is also a "J" proof. To prevent confusion, items that are proofed are not date coded with a J. HK magazines are not proofed, so the J is applicable for date coding them.
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  #296  
Old June 25th, 2008, 10:49 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,491
Remember that great pic of the African scout shooting a FAL on a galloping pony?


Well I found another good one.

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  #297  
Old June 27th, 2008, 05:34 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronward
Please do so John, I'd like some of your great detailed and well framed/composed shots at that!


Sorry for the delay, Ron. I was too pumped up about Heller yesterday to take pics.

Here's my USP Compact:


You can see on the port side of the slide and starboard side of the chamber reinforce that this USP Compact is chambered in 9mm Luger.

You can't tell from the pics, but this USP Compact is the "Variant 1" variant of the USP. That is, the trigger action is the traditional DA/SA. The safety may be applied with the hammer down or hammer cocked. Thus, there is single-action override capability and you can carry this pistol like a 1911 if you desire. That's how I like it but you will probably differ. The safety is also a decocker if you want to carry the pistol with a hammer down on loaded chamber. You will see that the safety is not ambidextrous (that's the Variant 2 I believe). If you want to know what the different variants are, check out:


I think I've shot this gun once or twice. It's been so long since I've shot it, I can't remember for sure. Whatever the amount, it's extremely little. For example, here's a pic of the camming lug under the chamber:


I don't know if you understand how modified Browning recoil pistols operate, but the camming surfaces under the barrel typically show wear when the pistol is shot a lot. This one shows almost no wear at all.

Same is true for the locking lug:


That sharp-edged surface is the locking lug. It mates with the square edge of the ejection port to lock the barrel and slide against one another.

Here's a view of the front of the barrel:


Barrels on pistols that operate on the modified Browning method of operation tilt to unlock and the barrel floats within the reciprocating slide. You can see that this pistol has not been shot very much at all.

I think I have less than 200 or 300 rounds through this pistol. I have never had any kind of malfunction whatsoever on this pistol. After I assured myself that it was perfect, I just put it away and never shot it. No love.

I think the greatest amount of wear on the barrel is on the starboard side of the chamber reinforce. Even there, it's very light. You can see some rub marks there where the chamber reinforce rubbed against the inside flats of the slide.

Here's a view of the underside of the slide, just forward of the ejection port:


Shots of the breech face:


I think the most worn piece on the pistol is the recoil spring guide rod:


I think this piece isn't as hard as the other pieces and is designed to be the consumable item. That is, all of the wear and tear happens to this piece because it's easily replaceable, while the case-hardened other pieces are designed not to take any wear at all.

Just a theory, but I think it's correct. This theory is also reinforced by the presence of the plastic recoil buffer on the recoil spring assembly and the fact that the recoil spring is captive on the recoil spring guide rod assembly. I think HK engineers intended for the user to dump this entire assembly after several thousand rounds, with the other parts like the slide, barrel, and slide suffering little or no wear.

You can see that the overall wear is almost nothing. Keep in mind about wear that the pistol will show this much wear whether fired only 50 times or 500 times. It's very easy to rub away bluing. Then, after thousands and thousands of rounds, the pistol will show different kinds of wear.

USP slides, barrels, and receivers are numbered, and all of the numbers on this pistol match.

This is a Sterling gun and was imported by Heckler & Koch Inc., which basically HK USA. HK USA has moved over the years. Other HKs are marked "Chantilly" or "Arlington". I think HK USA is currently in Trussville, AL.

The date code on this pistol is KI:


So it was manufactured in 1998. The German federal eagle sitting over the "N" is the proof mark. The N stands for Nitrozellulose or "nitrocellulose" (smokeless propellant). The antler symbol represents the Ulm Proof House in Ulm, Germany. There are a few other proof houses, but to my knowledge all HKs are proofed in the Ulm Proof House:

http://www.beschussamt-ulm.de/

This is the same proof house used by Krieghoff:


You can see in two of the photos above that the slide and barrel are proofed. The receiver is also proofed:


Here are the sights:


The sights are the original, HK sights and not aftermarket sights. The white dots are just white dots and not tritium inserts. The sights are not pre-drilled for tritium inserts like on the P7 family of pistols. If you want tritium sights, you can send the slide to HK USA for retofit or you can send the slide to companies like Trijicon or PT.

The bore and chamber are perfect. Not a spec of rust or anything. Mirror bright. No flaws anywhere. I tried to take some pics but it's really hard to take good shots with an auto-focusing camera. Here's a view of the chamber and leade:


It can be difficult for the layman to see, but you can see there if you look hard enough that the HK chambers are hammer-forged with the bore. On most barrels, the barrels are rifled and then the chamber is cut thereafter with a separate reamer. This two-step process results in machining smears and burrs in the leade, no matter how sharp the reamer and no matter how careful the craftsman was in cutting the chamber.

HK does everything at once. The rifling is forged into the bore rather than cut, and so is the chamber. The leade is free of burrs and is even radiused at the beginning of the lands for a smooth transition from freebore to rifling for the projectile. The chamber is also perfectly concentric with the bore. Furthermore, the rifled portion of the bore tapers slightly from back to front for a tighter gas seal. It's a beautiful thing.

Here's a view of sort of the middle of the rifling:


And the muzzle end:


The USP Compact rifling is sort of a copycat of the Glock rifling. It's not traditional land and groove, but it's not the purely polygonal rifling of the PSG1 and P7. I think it's more land and groove than polygonal, but HK refers to USP Compact rifling as polygonal.

Here's the case for the pistol:


You can see that owner's manual (never even been read), pistol, and two magazines are in there. I've never transported the pistol in this case, other than bringing it home with me from the gun shop. So the case is pristine:


"In a world of compromise, some don't." When I was a kid, it was "In a world of compromise, some men don't." HK went PC in the 1990s.

On the side, the pistol's model, caliber, and serial number are Sharpied on by hand. This was probably done by the gun shop personnel so that they could find the box more easily on the shelf. But just in case it was done by the personnel at Heckler & Koch, I left the Sharpie marks on there. I know very little about the USP, so I don't know if the Sharpie marks are "factory" or not. So I decided to leave the marks. If you want, you can remove them easily with some brake cleaner.

Incidentally, P7 boxes are factory-marked with the serial number, with each P7's box numbered to each P7.

My pistol came with two magazines:


You can see that floorplates are not identical. USP Compacts from this era came with one flush floorplate and one extended/lipped floorplate. More on this in a bit.

The magazines are the 10-shot type:


During 1998, the 10-shot cap was national. We are still bound by a 10-shot cap in California, but you aren't in Georgia. 13-shot USP Compact 9mm Luger magazines are now widely available and dirt cheap. For example, Adam @ HK Parts sells them for $38 apiece:

http://www.hkparts.net/HK%20PISTOL%2...-5%20PARTS.htm

Here's a view of the front of the magazines:


Clearly, I favor the flush magazine. It has more wear on it from the magazine catch than the extended/lipped magazine does.

Here's what the flush floorplate magazine looks like when inserted:


The extended flooplate in the butt:


I have no problem getting a proper firing grip on this pistol and inserting magazines smartly with the flush magazine inserted, which is one reason why I prefer the flush floorplate to the extended/lipped type. I generally like my pistols as small as possible. If you have very large hands, you may require the extended floorplate on all of your magazines. There's no way to tell for certain unless you play with a USP Compact for a while.

That's it I think.


$600 and it's yours.

If you like, I can send the pistol to you for you or your gunsmith/dealer/friend to inspect it. You will see that the pistol is as new in box. Please feel free to shoot it as well so that you feel comfortable that the pistol is tip top. If you don't like it, no strings attached. Just send it back.

But please buy it. This pistol needs a good home. I give it no love. It just sits there.

Buy it.
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  #298  
Old June 28th, 2008, 01:06 PM
blue blue is offline
Bill Gill, aka chump hater
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 1,186
Oh hell, John, I know you hate the USPs but just keep it. Guns shouldn't be sold, just bought.
____________________
© Blue
2004 D2

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  #299  
Old June 28th, 2008, 02:33 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,491
That pistol is perfect for Ron.
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  #300  
Old June 28th, 2008, 03:26 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
Guns shouldn't be sold, just bought.

Guns should be loved, not owned.
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