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  #301  
Old June 28th, 2008, 06:29 PM
mtnrovr mtnrovr is offline
Ryan Tolentino
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
Guns shouldn't be sold, just bought.
That's retarded.
____________________
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2001 F650 GS

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  #302  
Old June 28th, 2008, 08:58 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
Last week I watched The Kingdom:


I highly recommend it. There is some serious Heckler & Koch and Land Rover love in this movie. Jamie Foxx and Chris Cooper rock the G3, and Jennifer Garner rocks a MP5-K with PDW buttstock.
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  #303  
Old June 29th, 2008, 03:26 PM
blue blue is offline
Bill Gill, aka chump hater
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 1,186
Originally Posted by blue
Guns shouldn't be sold, just bought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnrovr
That's retarded.

I meant that they shouldn't be sold by private individuals. Of course the dealer is the one who has to sell them.
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  #304  
Old June 29th, 2008, 04:26 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,290
I'll have to rent that. I also noticed a VW T3 DOKA sitting in traffic at ~2:42 in the first clip you posted. Jamie Foxx pans past it with the G3 awaiting a shot at the Mercedes.

I usually prefer movies based on actual events like "Munich".
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  #305  
Old June 29th, 2008, 06:03 PM
ronward ronward is offline
KI4WWU
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 739
Great clips from The Kingdom!

John, sent you an email.

-Ron
____________________
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1990 Range Rover Classic
& a couple nice watches

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  #306  
Old July 1st, 2008, 04:11 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
I ran across this unique PSP on the web:


Note that I said PSP and not P7. The owner claims this pistol is a genuine PSP.

(Also note the age of the patch. In a world of compromise, some men don't.)

The port-side stock doesn't say "P7" on it:


That's hardly definitive. Note the markings on the starboard side:


The serial number is 354. That's what makes me wonder if this is a real PSP or if it's just a P7 with PSP stocks. According to HKPRO, there are only 239 true PSPs in existence:

The PSP was produced from May of 1976 through 1978. Only 239 total models were manufactured. The serial numbers for the PSP go from 001-239, then 240-250 are for the PSP/P7, and after 251 starts the P7 series.

This particular pistol is numbered 354, so I can't help but wonder if it is a P7.

You can see the cartouche surrounding the birdie and the BWB markings. The BWB stands for Bundesamt für Wehrtechnik und Beschaffung or "Federal Bureau of Military Technical Procurement".

Also, you can clearly see the "GSG 9" engraved into the frame beside the serial number. Sure, it's within the realm of possibility that this pistol was given to GSG9 for testing and evaluation very early in the PSP's development. However, I have a hard time believing that. I doubt the pistol would have the BWB and GSG 9 markings on it like that if it were a T&E pistol. It's almost like seeing "Property of U.S. Government" on a weapon and claiming it's a T&E model. Sure, it's possible. But not likely.

So I'm guessing it's a P7 with PSP stocks on it. I don't know enough about the PSP and P7 to know if the stocks were interchangeable. It could be that the PSP and P7 stocks were not interchangeable and if a pistol has PSP stocks then it is a PSP. I'm not sure. But whatever this pistol is, it's a very cool pistol. My P7M8 refurb has the BWB markings on it, but there's no GSG9 love on there at all.
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  #307  
Old July 1st, 2008, 04:26 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
This same guy has all kinds of crazy stuff, including the P7A10:


The owner's description:

HK P7A10 - US Military started looking at new pistols in the early 1980's The Trial was designated "XM9". HK made 34 examples of a 10 shot mag. model of the P7 by extending the frame, called the A10 ("A" = arbeitstitel = "working title") & shipped it to the US for testing. These were taken out of current production P7s so the serial number range was 27841-27873. US wanted bigger mag. so the P7A13 came next. P7A10 with 3-10 rnd. mags., target, box. Mint. RH grip says "XM9", Left grip red "P7". Box says "P7A10". p.245. in Kersten's book, HK Die Pistolen, where this gun is specifically documented there. This book was written with full cooperation of HK.

You can see that the frame is extended below the stocks and the floorplate sits flush against the extended magazine well. I wonder if these magazines are P7A10 magazines:




I don't know. The magazines are marked "P7" rather than "P7A10". Also, the floorplates are blued while the P7A10's magaziens are parkerized like the rest of the weapon. So it's hard to say.

Also note the odd placement of the lanyard loop on the magazine well extension. The spec sheets for the M9 trials required a lanyard loop as one of the many requirements.

I can only imagine the reaction of the U.S. Army when they received this weirdo. My reaction would have been something like, "thanks, but you might want to hit the drawing board again; that's not what we asked for".
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  #308  
Old July 1st, 2008, 05:09 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
This same guy also owns a pile of HK long guns.

Check out his sporter collection:


This guy is no HK Douchebag. He loves the blowback sporters as well as the military-style long guns. I don't know how many times I've heard the "I bleed HK" thing, and the guy has an HK91 clone and five or six USPs. These sporting HKs are very cool weapons, and they're loved by all of the Cold War era HK lovers.

From left to right, it looks to me as though he owns the HK940 (.30-06 Springfield), HK770 (.308 Winchester), HK630 (.223 Remington), SL7 (.308 Winchester), SL6 (.223 Remington), HK300 (.22 Mag), and HK270 (.22 Long Rifle).

I'm not digging what little I can see of the telescope peeping out of the sides of the HK270. I see scope rings there. Booo. I would have liked it if he used the HK05 claw mount without the rings and fitted a telescope with mounting rail machined onto the tube:


It just looks so much more German without the rings. But far from me to poo poo his sporting HK collection. That's so nice. I wish I had the HK270 in my collection. Some day....

Homeboy also owns a prototype SP89:


The SP89 isn't my dream gun or anything, but I have to wonder what this particular pistol is worth. I think it's a lot. Even a production SP89 is worth $3,000 or $4,000 I think.

Note the low-profile sights. Production SP89s have the standard sights that most MP5Ks have, with the front sight hooded and the rotating rear sight drum of the rifles and MP5 (albeit with a lower drum with notches instead of apertures).

(There's that IR "date code" again on the magazine. I have no idea what this is. I gottsta know!)

Here's an MP5KA1 dead center in the foreground:


MP5s and HK94s are marked on the top of the receiver rather than on the port side of the magazine well. This prototype SP89 has some really weirdo markings:


Note the "HK 94 KA1". One might think the "KA" is a 1990 date code, but I don't think so. I think Heckler & Koch intended for the "HK 94 KA1" to run together. I believe the production MP5K with the low-profile sights is type-classified as the "MP5KA1", so this HK94KA1 marking makes sense. Furthermore, the date code is between the proof marks.

To the right of the model number you can see the notches in the claw mount shoulders. This the rear sight notch on the KA1 models.

This guy owns many HK long guns, but among them is the HK43:


Just look at that beautiful, sweeping shape of the 40-shot magazine. With that magazine fitted, the HK43 looks just like a StG44:


That's love. "The HK family of weapons originates in Spain." Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

Here's another shot of his HK43:


I'm not sure if this is another gun or if it's the same gun with the 25-shot magazine fitted.

The forend is not original I believe, as I don't think the HK43 came with the tropical forend. I think all HK43s came with the slimline forend.

The buttstock looks original to me. Note the butt is concave. The HK43s came with concave buttstocks. Heckler & Koch later switched to the steel end cap for the HK93A2 buttstocks. And that HK43's buttstock doesn't look like an MP5A2 buttstock. Later MP5A2 buttstocks have flat butts:


The HK43 is basically an early-model HK93. According to Wiki, there were only 377 HK43s produced worldwide and about 200 are in the United States. If this guy owns two of them, that's a lot.
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  #309  
Old July 1st, 2008, 09:14 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
Some Japanese guy on YouTube has some HK love.

The G3:


There's some good slow-motion footage of a cutaway G3 during the cycling phase.

I'm not sure about the so-called "G3 SMG" in the video. I'm not sure if it's a real Heckler & Koch product or it's some kind of HK51 conversion. The dust cover over the cocking tube is unlike I have seen before, so this might be the real deal. I'm not sure.

You can see how violent the ejection is. The HK roller-delayed weapons employ a fixed ejector and the weapons basically operate at maximum, so the ejection is quite violent. G3s toss the ejected cases as far and as violently as the AKs.

The PSG1:


I love the porn music in these vids.

G41:


MP5KA1 (attoney version):


MP5SD:


MP5:


I love that slow-mo of the ejection sequence. You can see the magazine swinging/flexing back and forth.

I just wish the show's producer's didn't scope the MP5 for the action shots. The scope looks added on and therefore cheesy.

Definitely not a cheeseball scope is this GR9:


I'm still stunned this show was able to score a GR for the show. These weapons are extremely rare.

All of the foregoing weapons operate on the roller-delayed blowback principle. This method of operation was first used on the Mauser StG45(M):


At the top is the StG44. In the middle is the StG45(M). And at the bottom is a CETME.

Only a handful of StG45(M)s exist today, and the weapon never made it to production. However, its method of operation lives on. On the roller-delayed weapons, rollers pushed outward by a spring-loaded wedge create a mechanical disadvantage that keeps the unlocked breech closed just long enough until pressures have reached a safe level. Though often and mistakenly referred to as roller-locking, the action is never truly locked. This method of operation is distinctly different from the method of operation employed by the MG42, which is roller-locked.

Based on an entirely different method of operation from the HK long guns is the HK P7:


The P7, like the other HK weapons listed above, operates from an unlocked breech. The P7's method of operation is delayed blowback. However, the delay is not from rollers. The delay is by gas pressure. This method of operation the Heckler & Koch engineers took from the VG1-5 (Volkssturmgewehr):


The same gas pressure that drives the projectile through the bore is bled into a separate chamber to delay the opening of the breech until pressures have reached a safe level.
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  #310  
Old July 11th, 2008, 04:52 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160

Quote:
U.S. Marine Corps Sgt. Edward W. Deptola fires a Heckler & Koch G3 rifle during an enhanced marksmanship program shoot held with the 15th Kenyan Rifle Battalion March 5, 2007, during Edged Mallet 2007 at Naval Base Manda Bay, Kenya. The 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit is conducting the bilateral exercise, which includes operational training with Kenyan land and naval forces as well as serving the local community at a medical clinic and refurbishing a school. The Marines are from Weapons Company, Battalion Landing Team 2/2, 26th MEU. (U.S. Marine Corps photo by Lance Cpl. Patrick M. Johnson-Campbell) (Released)
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  #311  
Old July 11th, 2008, 05:25 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160

How did Queen Latifah score an StG44 and I've never even seen one in person? That's bullshit.
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  #312  
Old July 11th, 2008, 06:27 PM
thomaskimura thomaskimura is offline
Thomas Kimura
N6BZ
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 178
There's quite the goings on in that picture. I'm not certain, but it looks like two weapons to the right there is a BM-59.
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  #313  
Old July 11th, 2008, 07:34 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,290
Oh man.

Just think if you could pick that up for $100 or trade her for an AK. What would you do then?

Stash it, go back and get your Class 3 and bring it in? lol
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  #314  
Old July 11th, 2008, 08:27 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
Some pics from the ATF Pattern Room:


There are five different pistol grips in the left bottom of the pic. Note the two with the forward bulge on the frontstrap. Unless my eyes deceive me, I believe they're pistol grips of the MKb42(H):


These guys have not one but two MKb42(H)s in their pattern room? Holy shit. Their stash of StG44s isn't too shabby either:


You can see on the far right of the second pic that the last two are indeed MKb42(H)s and not StG44s. Holy shit.

Note the HK21 in the rack below the StG44s. Even the guys at the ATF know enough to rack the HKs beside the StG44s rather than with the Stars and Llamas and Astras:


You can see the HK21's muzzle poking up through the rack on the far right. There are also what look like G3 and G33 flash suppressors visible between the StG44 buttstocks.

On the rack to the left of the StGGs look like G33s, an HK53, and an SL8. The two long guns there with bull barrels and no flash suppressors are a mystery to me. The longer one might be an SR9, although I can't sure. The shorter of the two looks like a G33 or HK93 with untapered barrel and no flash suppressor. I have no idea what that is.

On the rack below, there are what look like two G3s with slimline forends.

This pic is sweet. I just wish that pile of shit SL8 weren't there. It spoils the photo.
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  #315  
Old July 14th, 2008, 01:15 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,491
Hot damn.
Another all time great pic.


I have a similar pic of Jabali tribesman from the Omani Mountains celebrating National Day circa 1984. They're all decked in the traditional black skirts with hunjars and purple dye on their dark (for Arabs) skin. They sport Jungle 5s, FALs and other export/surplus arms of interest.

I don't know who these colorful women are in the above pic, but I'm hoping that there some sort of tribal anti-Maoist brigade from sub-sahara. The pic looks like it was taken in the mid 80s and the color on the wraps has kind of a Zanzibar flavor to it. But the guns make it look like their local armory is some sort of firearms museum. The StG44 is the centerpiece, but the other weapons make for a curious collection. The second weapon in the center has the stock and double trigger of an Mp18, but that ventilated shroud is something I've never seen before. It might be one of the later Beretta mod1934 variants. I'm also seeing a Tokarev SVT and Yugo M48. There's an M14 and a MAS49. A Carcano 6.5 carbine.

I'm not seeing the BM-59 Tom is talking about.

I'm wondering if they even have more than a magazine of ammuniton apiece. I doubt even Old Wester Scrounger could supply this troupe with their patchwork of calibers. 7.92x33, 7.92x57, 7.62x54R, 9x19, 7.62x51, 6.5 Italian, 7.5 French...

Peep the woman simply holding a large dagger.

Awesome.
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  #316  
Old July 14th, 2008, 01:25 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,491
Check these out:

GDR Volkspolizei mid 1950s:




Mystery Slavic forces???:




Hungary maybe?

Finally an action shot from the hositilities in Lebanon last year:


I got some info on the African women:

Quote:
Women of the West Somali Liberation Front express their support for Somalia during the war against Ethiopia for the border territory of the Ogaden in 1977-8.
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  #317  
Old July 14th, 2008, 02:04 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,491
Well look what we have here...


Apparently these US soldiers just raided the home of some Iraqi John Lee.
There goes your prized collection.
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  #318  
Old July 14th, 2008, 08:21 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
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  #319  
Old July 14th, 2008, 08:31 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
Jack, here's one that is similar to your gulf war pic:


The caption is obviously incorrect.

I don't think G.I. Joe there has any clue what he found.
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  #320  
Old July 14th, 2008, 10:19 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
The rare, the marvelous, the superbly accurate and reliable Heckler & Koch PSG1:


This particular PSG1 was manufactured in 1997:


Note that the Hensoldt telescope is numbered too. This is the first time I've seen the underside of the Hensoldt. Up to now, I didn't know that these telescopes were numbered.

Many believe that the PSG1 is merely an HK91 with a heavy barrel some goodies welded on. This is not accurate. The PSG1 may look a lot like an HK91, but the parts are all hand-fitted. The trunnion on the PSG1 is longer than on the G3 to support to the greater weight of the heavy barrel. And a good many of the components are not interchangeable.

Here's a view of the starboard side of the receiver:


There are no iron sights on the PSG1, not even for backup use. The telescope is not detachable and bolted to mounts welded to the top of the receiver. In this manner, there is no doubt about telescope mount shifting or other failure. The disc-shaped cover on side of telescope houses the battery for the telescope's illuminated reticle for low-light conditions.

Clearly visible on this side are the reinforcement rails for the receiver. These reinforcements look like this:


The reinforcements fit into the waisted shape of the sheetmetal receiver and reinforce it against flexing during the recoil cycle. This enhances the intrinsic accuracy of the PGS1.

Note the forward assist on the receiver and the serrated bolt carrier to accept the "push" from the forward assist. Roller-delayed weapons feature a very heavy recoil spring and do not have problems with the bolt going fully into battery, even on very dirty weapons. The forward assist on the PSG1 is there so that the user may chamber a round and push the bolt carrier into battery without creating such a loud noise that he will give away his position. If you have ever played with an HK91, you know how loud chambering a round is.

Here's a view of the PSG1's bolt group:


Looks very close to the G3 and HK91 bolt groups, but there are differences. Obviously, the side of the cocking tube portion of the bolt carrier is serrated to accept the forward assist's push. But there's more. There's a clearance cut or a lightening cut under the cocking tube portion of the bolt carrier. I'm not sure what this clearance cut is for.

Also, look at the extractor. There is some weirdo stuff. Here's a PSG1 bolt head:


I've never seen a PSG1 bolt head in person, so I can't say for sure. But that black extractor is definitely weirdo. It's different from any extractor I've seen from a G3, G33, MP5, etc. From looking at the extractor from both sides, I don't see an external extractor spring. I think the extractor is spring-loaded internally, and the long, black transverse piece controls longitudinal movement of the extractor. That's awesome. I'd love to study this bolt head in person.

The locking piece is also different on the PSG1, and is marked "30T":


The angles on the locking piece are what determine the amount of mechanical disadvantage and resulting amount of delay from the rollers. The PSG1 has a different locking piece from the G3 and HK91. I don't know enough about the 30T to know if it has a faster or slower cycle time than the G3 and HK91 locking pieces. I'm guessing the 30T is optimized for use with Federal 168-grain Match rather than the 147-grain NATO 7.62, but that's just a guess.

Here's a view of the muzzle:


You can see just how thick the PSG1's barrel is. It looks like a halfshaft.

Unlike the G3, the PSG1 features a polygonal bore to maximize accuracy. This weapon's bore is dirty and is copper-fouled. This is $15,000 gun. I can't believe the owner put away the rifle dirty like that. I do that to my K-20, but the K-20 ain't no PSG1.

Here's a view of the furniture:


The shoe on the trigger is plastic and is adjustable for height. Most PSG1 users mount the trigger shoe at its lowest point, to obtain maximum leverage against the trigger bow.

HK thoughtfully fitted the PSG1 with an extended selector. Unlike the military G3SG/1, the PSG1 is capable of semi-automatic fire only to prevent overheating the barrel and ruining it.

The pistol grip is walnut and the hand stop is plastic. The hand stop is adjustable for height, at least in theory. In practice, the user must tighten the adjustment knob very tight to prevent the hand stop from moving under recoil and this makes the adjustment knob not quickly adjustable in the field.

The seven-point knob behind the pistol grip is the wrench for the buttstock. With this wrench in place, the user may adjust the comb height, length of pull, buttplate cant, and buttplate height.

You can just barely see the square holes in the buttstock screws. Into these square holes the tip of the buttstock wrench fits. The tip of the buttstock wrench is spring-loaded and the wrench will stay in the weapon if the user so desires it. Thus, most users leave the wrench in the weapon like so:


You can see I do the same thing with my PSG1 buttstock on my HK91:


I figure I'm more likely to lose the wrench if I leave it off the weapon and misplace it. Thus far I haven't lost the wrench. I hope I never do. This wrench probably costs more than a Glock.

Here's a PSG1 trigger housing removed from the weapon:


The hammer is considerably lighter than the hammer on the G3 and HK91 and lock-time is considerably faster on the PSG1 trigger pack. You can see that the ejector is considerably different in shape from that of the G3 and HK91 ejectors. Again, this is a completely different weapon.

This PSG1's forend has been fitted with a hand stop:


The PSG1's hand stop is adjustable for length and is removable. Most users remove the hand stop.

The PSG1's transport case holds four magazines and a tripod:


The magazines on the left are 20-shot steel magazines from the G3. The baby mags on the right are steel five-shot magazines.

I can't recall for certain, but my recollection is that the tripod is manufactured for Heckler & Koch in Switzerland.

Here's another view of the tripod:


When assembled, the tripod looks like this:


I'm not sure of the utility of this tripod. It seems to me that it would take considerable time to set up in the field. I've never seen a pic of the tripod being used in the field. Most use the sandbag like these GSG9 snipers:


I think HK includes the tripod with the PSG1 just to show that it pulled all the stops with this rifle. Whatever. The tripod is very cool.

Here's a view of the PSG1's transport case:


It's an extruded aluminum case with reinforced corners:


This case is quite valuable. I think the market value of a PSG1 jumps up considerably when the weapon is complete with the case. This case is inferior to the Pelican 1750 in terms of function, but if I had a PSG1 it wouldn't be housed in any Pelican case. It's this case or nothing.

The PSG1 debuted in the 1980s. When it hit the scene, the PSG1 cost $6,000. This was 20 years ago. That was a shitload of money back then. An HK91 cost $600 back then. PSG1s now go for around $15,000. If Heller reaches as far as I hope and the California ban on the PSG1 is repealed, I'm going to get a PSG1. I've wanted one for a long time now. I've seen only two PSG1s in my life, once at the SHOT Show and once at the Westminster B&B. The one at B&B also had the .22LR conversion kit with it, and it was on consignment at B&B. I was drooling while looking through B&B's glass cases. I couldn't believe the chump owner was selling it.

I hope to have my own PSG1 one day.
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  #321  
Old July 15th, 2008, 05:20 PM
Nadir_E
 
Posts: n/a
Damn, John - hadn't thought about B&B in ages! Used to go to the one in the valley all the time back in the 80's & early 90's - bought lots of stuff there.

I remember the PSG-1's being around, but as you say, out of most Joe's price ranges. Here's hoping you get your wish to own one someday.

-n
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  #322  
Old July 15th, 2008, 06:44 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
We'll see how Heller plays out. Perhaps a PSG1 is in my future. I certainly hope so.

The PSG1 is my "realistic" sniper/target rifle. True, a $15,000 rifle is hardly "realistic" to most people, but at least it's "legal". If NFA restrictions were not a factor, my dream sniper/target rifle would not be the PSG1. Instead, it would be the marvelous G3SG/1:


The "SG" in G3SG/1 stands for Scharfschutzengewehr or sharpshooter's rifle. The base for the G3SG/1 is the standard G3. The G3s that exhibit better-than-average accuracy during testing are set aside and built into G3SG/1s. Or at least that's the story.

The G3SG/1s were fitted with Carl Zeiss Diavari telescopes like this one:


These telescopes feature a non-centered reticle that moves within the field of view as adjustments are made. The elevation knob is notched for adjustments from 100 to 600 meters. Magnification is adjustable from 1.5 to 6x.

The Diavari was secured with a quickly detachable claw mount:


The claw mount uses a series of fiendishly clever levers and camming surfaces to hold the claw mount in place on the G3SG/1's sheetmetal receiver. The claw mount is parkerized only and not painted like the rest of the rifle.

Here's the bottom view:


Presumably, the Schußrichtung means forward.

This G3SG/1's receiver was masked at the HK factory for perfect seating of the claw mount's engagement surfaces:


I'm not sure if all G3SG/1s had their claw mounting surfaces masked like that, but that's some cool shit there.

Other than the telescope, the biggest distinguishing feature about the G3SG/1 is the trigger pack:


Note the selector markings. This trigger pack is select-fire. This is the so-called SEF trigger pack. The SEF mean:

S - Sicher (Safe)
E - Einzelfeuer (Single Fire)
F - Feuerstoß (Burst Fire)

The Feuerstoß is full auto.

The G3SG1's trigger bow leans forward more and has a more tapered shape than the standard G3 trigger. The odd-looking piece behind the trigger bow is the set trigger mechanism. To set the trigger, the shooter selects semi-auto and pushes the lever backward to set the trigger. From what I gather, the trigger release on a set mechanism is about two pounds. If the shooter does not set the trigger mechanism, the semi-auto trigger action is the typical heavy and mushy trigger pull typically found on HK trigger packs.

Here's a starboard view of the trigger pack:


I don't know what the red button behind the trigger is. Perhaps it's to unset the trigger? I don't know.

Having a select-fire trigger pack, it is no surprise that the G3SG/1 features the G3's receiver with third pushpin:

Contrast that receiver with the PSG1's receiver, which lacks the third pushpin for the trigger pack. The PSG1 also lacks the paddle magazine release that the G3, G33, MP5, etc. have. This is the real deal.

Here are pics of the G3SG/1's bolt assembly:


Looks just like an HK91 bolt carrier from afar. But this is the real deal. The G3SG/1 is a select-fire weapon and therefore has the full-auto bolt carrier. Here's a G3 bolt carrier on the left and an HK91 bolt carrier on the right:


That clearance cut in the HK91's bolt carrier prevents the bolt carrier from tripping the release for the auto sear. When the G3's bolt carrier goes fully into battery, the bolt carrier's rearmost portion trips the auto sear and releases the hammer. This way, the G3 will not fire out of battery. The HK91 lacks an auto sear and the ATF requires HK91 bolt carriers to be cut to prevent ready conversion to select-fire. So not only does the HK91 lack the auto sear and appurtenant parts, it lacks the bolt carrier to trip the auto sear.

The G3SG/1's buttstock:


The comb is adjustable for height, but the buttplate is not adjustable.

This particular G3SG/1's buttstock is fitted with what looks like an HK21 buffer:


Shots of the forend and lightweight bipod:


Here's what the lightweight bipod looks like folded:


The lightweight bipod's legs are somewhat spring-loaded and snap into the recesses in the forend. The crescent-shaped buttons on the lightweight bipod legs are the locking releases. The user need not depress these buttons to employ the bipod from the storage position. Rather, he may simply snap out the legs and go to prone. But he must depress the buttons to fold the bipod legs into the storage/transport position.

(The "lightweight" in lightweight bipod does not refer to the actual weight. This thing is anything but "light". The lightweight bipod is just a model of bipod from HK. The heavyweight bipod folds from the receiver end.)

Here's what the barrel looks like under the forend:


It looks just like a standard G3 barrel. Most people do not know that HK barrels are free-floated. The barrel looks connected to the cocking tube, but it is not. The cocking tube's front end extends into a recess in the front sight base, but does not actually touch it. The barrel touches only the receiver trunnion and nothing else. The forend mates to the sheetmetal saddle that is spot-welded to the cocking tube and no part of the forend touches the barrel. It's a beautiful thing.

Here's a complete G3SG/1:


Just stunning.

Here's a view of a G3SG/1 inside its wooden transport case:


This transport case is a pile of shit, so you know I own one. The foam is crap. But the case is bitchin.

Here's a vintage shot of the G3SG/1 being demonstrated with some weirdo optics:


I have no idea what that thing is supposed to be. But the photo does give you an idea of the G3SG/1's age.

To complete the ultimate rifle, there is the factory .22LR conversion kit:


The G3 .22LR conversion kit came complete with bolt assembly, two magazines, and insert barrel. It's a masterpiece of engineering.

That's a G3 conversion kit pictured above. HK also made a .22LR conversion kit specifically for the HK91. The two conversion kits are largely interchangeable but differ in the length of the false bolt carrier:


You can see that the HK91 bolt carrier is longer. If the G3 conversion kit is used in an HK91, the unit will operate just fine. However, if the cocking handle is pulled back and locked open, the G3 bolt carrier will override the hammer and bind in the open position. The HK91 conversion kit operates perfectly in the G3.

Here's a close-up of the .22LR Bolt carrier:


Unlike the .308 bolt carrier, the .22LR bolt carrier remains stationary in the forward position during firing. The bolt carrier is pushed forward under heavy pressure from the recoil spring and does not reciprocate during the recoil cycle with .22LR ammunition. Rather, the miniature bolt within the bolt carrier reciprocates. The baby bolt is propelled backward by the thrust of the .22LR ammunition and is propelled forward by the small recoil spring at the rear of the bolt carrier.

Note the plastic buffer attached to the bolt and secondary, more powerful recoil spring held captive to the recoil spring's guide rod. This secondary spring is more a buffer than a recoil spring and prevents battering of the tiny pieces when hyper-velocity .22LR ammunition is shot through this conversion kit.

Here's a good view of the .22LR magazines:


The .22LR magazines are the steel type and are painted light gray to distinguish them from the .308 steel magazines (which are parkerized). You can see the HK270-style baby magazines inside the feel lips of the full-sized magazine. The baby magazines look like these HK270 magazines:


So the PSG1 is my "realistic" dream HK sniper/target rifle, while the G3SG/1 is my no-holds-barred dream rifle.
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  #323  
Old July 15th, 2008, 07:07 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadir_E
Damn, John - hadn't thought about B&B in ages! Used to go to the one in the valley all the time back in the 80's & early 90's

Then this will bring a tear to your eye:


B&B ad from The Shotgun News, October 1, 1984.

The prices there are little fuzzy, but I think the HK91A2 was $459.95.

It looks to me as if the HK93A3 was $499.95.

The HK93A2 was $455.

The HK770 was $400.

The SL7 was three something.

The HK300 was TWO something.

The HK270 was ONE something.

Fuck.

The HK91A2 with heavy bipod and green furniture was $549.95. This HK91A2:


Now, that's not my thing. But $550 for that. Unreal.

This gives you an idea of how crazy it was for HK to charge $6,000 for the PSG1 at this time. That was a shitload amount of money back then.
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  #324  
Old July 15th, 2008, 09:31 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,491
What's the story with the rear sight on the HK91A2 pictured above?

I'm digging the green furniture and extended selector and the "heavy" bipod.

If that rifle had the paddle magazine release and no carry handle it would really be nice.
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  #325  
Old July 15th, 2008, 10:36 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,160
That HK91 is a little pimped out for my tastes.

I dig the green furniture and I like the fact that he put the PSG1 trigger pack into the rifle. The extended selector you mentioned is for the PSG1 trigger pack. The standard HK91 selector looks like this:


This selector is too short for most people. The main advantage to going to the PSG1 trigger pack is the superior trigger pull, but the extended selector is a very real advantage.

Other than that, the rifle goes downhill for me. I hate that heavy bipod. The thing looks as if it has insect legs or something.

I also don't like the rear sight. That's an HK21 machinegun rear sight. The standard G3 and HK91 rear sight looks like this:


The G3/HK91 rear sight has an open notch for 100 meters and apertures for 200, 300, and 400 meters. If you look closely at that pic of the US Marine firing that Kenyan G3, it looks as if he's using the 100-meter notch.

The G3 rear sight's apertures are all the same size. They just differ in heights on the sight drum so that the projectile will land at the target at the desire range. This is different from the MP5 rear sight, which has concentric apertures of differing size.

The HK rifle and MP5 sights are not readily adjustable and must be adjusted using an HK sight tool:


This has never bothered me in the least, because I'm not the type of person who fiddles with his sights constantly. I just get a very good battle zero of 200 yards and that's fine for me. But some guys like to fiddle with their sights or they just want to trick out their rifles, so many fit the HK machinegun rear sight onto their rifles. The HK machineguns like the HK21 need greater than 400-meter range, so the sights are elevation-adjustable to great ranges.

Here's a somewhat better pic of the machinegun rear sight:


And here are some scale shots against an HK91 receiver:


You can see the giant knobs on each side. These knobs adjust for elevation.

There are several different generations of the machinegun rear sight in existence. The ones shown above are adjustable for elevation only. That is, turning either knob will simply move the aperture up or down and not side to side.

I'm not positive on this point, but I believe the latest/greatest machinegun rear sights are windage-adjustable as well. Check out this one:


That's the so-called Fourth Generation rear sight, and I believe it's windage adjustable. You can see the elevation knob goes from 1 to 12. That is, 100 to 1200 meters. The other knob has weirdo markings and on it, and I'm guessing that's windage and not elevation. Just a guess.

Here's an even older rear sight than the one mounted on that HK91:


I have no idea which generation that rear sight is. But you can see the elevation knob is only on one side and the general appearance of the rear sight looks very dated.

The carry handle you see on that HK91 is an add-on HK part that looks like this:


I hate these things. I also hate the ejection port buffer he has, which looks like this:


The ejection port buffer is to soften the ejection out of the G3 and HK91, which have very violent ejection. The HK roller-delayed weapons have fixed ejectors and toss brass very violently. It's common to tag other shooters on your right. And ejected cases are often dented and mangled on the case mouth and side of the body. This ejection port buffer really works. But it's hideous.

It's a little difficult to see, but this Latvian soldier has the ejection port buffer mounted to his G3:


Here's my favorite G3 and HK91 configuration:


Those aren't the greatest photos and this moron doesn't know how to use the HK sling, but you get the idea. Black paint on the rifle. Black furniture. Slimline forend with sling snap. A2 buttstock. HK sling. 20-shot aluminum magazine with the sinister-looking corrugations on the sides. Beauty. This exact configuration but with green furniture is also awesome. Just a very clean weapon with no bullshit. Everything you need and nothing you don't.

Here's a close-up of the G3 aluminum magazines:


The aluminum magazines are considerably weaker than the steel magazines, but I dig the way the aluminum magazines look with the slimline forend (which has its own sinister shapes). It depends on the gun. For the G3SG/1 and PSG1, I prefer the looks of the steel magazine.

As for the HK sling, it is more misunderstood than the military loop sling. Half or more of the online pics of HKs with the sling mounted show the sling mounted incorrectly. The snap hook on the forend is supposed to accept the sling buckle like so:


Or like this:


With the sling buckle clipped into the forend, the user may let the weapon hang in front of him with only his strong hand on the pistol grip and the weight of the weapon supported by the shoulder rather than the arms. When the buckle is held by the snap hook, the sling is effectively shorter and the weapon will not hang too low on the user's body. When he needs to fire, he need only push the weapon forward as he mounts it and the buckle will release from the snap hook, effectively lengthening the sling and enabling the user to employ the weapon as if there were no sling at all.

Tactical slings are only now coming into vogue, but HK had this shit decades ago.
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