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  #26  
Old April 25th, 2005, 12:35 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greghirst
Slightly off subject-

Finished an interesting book today: "Shotguns and Shooting" by Michael McIntosh. Enjoyable and easy reading and I learned a thing or two. I've been meaning to read it for awhile and finally got around to it.

In addition to basics, it rounded out some history for me. Good read if you haven't already.

McIntosh is excellent.
Best Guns is a good read.
He and Terry Wieland have some interesting opinions about Spanish guns and whether or not they are worth of the "Best" label.
Back when I first started reading and posting on bbs.shootingsportsman.com about 5 years ago Michael still posted regularly. Over the years he has sort of disappeared. I'm not sure if any gun authorities ever quite qualify as famous types but eventually he got sort of hounded on the board. Larry Brown and some other notables still post. Michael was the most interesting to read. He wasn't your avg. bbs expert making a cameo appearance. He posted regularly and gave very thorough information. Not just cuz I said so arguments.

I also like a lot of Gene Hill's writing about shotguns and shotgunning.

Last edited by JSQ : April 25th, 2005 at 12:35 AM. Reason: typo
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  #27  
Old April 25th, 2005, 09:42 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
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I went to Turner's yesterday to look for that Federal SC179 load, but no joy. Perhaps Oak Tree will have some.

I was also going to stock up on some el cheapo ammunition for Oak Tree, but I couldn't believe the prices. PMC, Wolf, Fiocchi, etc. were all $6 per box. Even AA was going for $5 per box. I couldn't believe it.

On the elitism thing, my take on it is that there is good elitism and bad elitism. Bad elitism is judging shotshells by their name. This is especially ridiculous considering that the London houses like Holland & Holland, James Purdey & Sons, et al. don't even load their own ammunition. Rather, they have "their" ammunition private-labeled for them by various ammunition companies. I believe H&H even has a Royal Warrant for suppling shotshells to the Duke of Edinburgh, which is ridiculous given H&H doesn't load its own ammunition. However, if one is an elitist and judges shotshells on their performance, that's another matter entirely. I'm totally cool with that kind of elitism, as it shows a knowledge of shotshells and shotshell performance that goes way beyond name or appearance.

So Keith, you up for some Oak Tree action in May?
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  #28  
Old April 25th, 2005, 01:36 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Greg, you too. Wanna hit Oak Tree for some 686 action?
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  #29  
Old April 25th, 2005, 04:02 PM
KevinNY
 
Posts: n/a
Jack,

I like your points of style, we'd get along. Any chance you are heading to the Solihull Rally?
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  #30  
Old April 25th, 2005, 06:20 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
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Sounds like fun. However, I need to stick around home as my wife just spent a week in the hospital. Let me know when and I'll see if I can make it.
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  #31  
Old April 25th, 2005, 06:30 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
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BTW-FWIW At Raahauge's I was talking to one the sporting clay "experts" who told me that in Europe Remington contracted with B&P rather than import US product as it was more expensive. So if you buy Remington Premier shotshells in the UK it will be a green Remington-badged B&P with gordon system.

Winchester does the same with another Italian shotshell mfg.
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  #32  
Old April 25th, 2005, 06:45 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
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Greg, that's cool. As the date approaches and we firm up the date, I'll let you know in case you can sneak away for a day.

Jack, just to gross you out some more, I just bought a K-80:



The K-80 has always been my dream shotgun but I've been unable to locate one with the CNC'd "K80" and cartouche on the sides of the receiver. which I believe was discontinued by Krieghoff over a decade ago. From my way of looking at things, this is the one and only Krieghoff K-80 and the scroll-engraved ones Krieghoff makes today are just as hideous as an engraved 870. I was just browsing through Guns America today and found this little gem. I just spoke to the seller and we did the deal.

This K-80 has 28" barrels, interchangeable Krieghoff chokes, a No. III skeet forend, a No. V skeet buttstock, 14.1" LOP, and an adjustable comb. The recoil pad is a Pachmayr Sporting Clays model with hard insert on the heel. The forcing cones are long but the bores aren't backbored, and mic .735" and .736". There's no porting.

The gun is just about perfect. The only things I would change would be darker wood, oil finish (this K-80 has the standard epoxy finish), and No. III trap forend, but the gun otherwise is so nice I could hardly say no to it. The price was also very good.

I don't know if I'll have this weapon in time for the May shoot, but we'll see what happens.
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  #33  
Old April 25th, 2005, 07:32 PM
mcfatty mcfatty is offline
Keith McFatridge
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Ladera Ranch, CA
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Count me in on any sporting clay events. John, congrats on the over-and-under. Nice to see so much interest in the shooting sports. Great tip--help keep the shooting sports alive by introducing a youngster; be it hunting, or target shooting!
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  #34  
Old April 25th, 2005, 08:00 PM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcfatty
Count me in on any sporting clay events. John, congrats on the over-and-under. Nice to see so much interest in the shooting sports. Great tip--help keep the shooting sports alive by introducing a youngster; be it hunting, or target shooting!

Do I count as a youngster??
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  #35  
Old April 25th, 2005, 09:23 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Location: Torrance, CA
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Here are some pics of the K-80:










The K-80 has to be one of the ugliest shotguns ever created. I love it.
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  #36  
Old April 25th, 2005, 11:18 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
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Very nice, John. I've lusted for a K-80 myself.
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  #37  
Old April 25th, 2005, 11:25 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
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Join Date: Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
However, if one is an elitist and judges shotshells on their performance, that's another matter entirely. I'm totally cool with that kind of elitism, as it shows a knowledge of shotshells and shotshell performance that goes way beyond name or appearance.

I call that being a knowledgeable enthusiast. Something to aspire to.
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  #38  
Old April 26th, 2005, 10:00 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
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Greg, after I get it you can shoot it all you like.

This will be a new one for me too, as I have never shot a K-80. The most I've ever done is handle one and play with it a little. Part of me is afraid I'll end up liking my Super 90 better, which would definitely suck. We'll see what happens.
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  #39  
Old April 26th, 2005, 10:25 AM
hochung hochung is offline
Ho Chung
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
Part of me is afraid I'll end up liking my Super 90 better, which would definitely suck. We'll see what happens.

that wouldn't suck as much john, i dont' mind "hand me down" shotguns.
____________________
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  #40  
Old April 26th, 2005, 11:01 AM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
Greg, after I get it you can shoot it all you like.

Thanks!

Let me know when you pick up an AW308 for me to borrow for an extended period as well.

BTW-Pick up one of these for me to try out as well:

http://www.ugb25xcel.com/index.aspx?m=53&did=42

As much as I dislike the looks I am intrigued by it.
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  #41  
Old April 26th, 2005, 11:25 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,158
I kinda dig that Xcel. I think the design of that weapon is very innovative, with its buffered recoil pad and very low bore axis. I'm not very recoil-sensitive when shooting clay targets, but for the recoil-shy shooter that Xcel would be a sweet weapon. It would recoil even less if ported.

My primary objection to the Xcel is its styling. It looks a little cheap to me. I mean, who else would even consider mixing gold and plastic on the same gun? It's hideous. There are some cool things on it like the laser-cut checkering. I've seen this checkering on the latest 682's and I kinda dig it. That's also in harmony with the gun's high-tech overall design. I wish Beretta had gone the full-out-high-tech route on the Xcel and didn't try to Uptown the gun the way it did with the glossy wood and the gold trim. Also, the BB gun safety is a POS and needs to go.

As crazy as it sounds, that Xcel could even be made into a very nice combat weapon too. It would be like a double but you could constantly top up the weapon without having to open it and render the weapon inoperable. I doubt the concept would sell but I see the Xcel as being very feasible for defensive shotgunning use as well as a play toy for clay targets.
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  #42  
Old April 26th, 2005, 01:51 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by greghirst

BTW-Pick up one of these for me to try out as well:

http://www.ugb25xcel.com/index.aspx?m=53&did=42

As much as I dislike the looks I am intrigued by it.


(EEEEEEEK!!! X 10^26)
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  #43  
Old April 26th, 2005, 04:50 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,158
I think Jack's more into stuff like this:

























800Shotgun is selling that pair for $95,000. Quite a bargain if you think about it. Both weapons appear new.
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  #44  
Old April 27th, 2005, 09:48 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
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So far so good, and the K-80 deal looks as if it's going through.

I'm sending payment to the seller today and he sent me some more pics of my soon-to-be K-80:












I'm pumped. We'll see how things go.
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  #45  
Old April 27th, 2005, 10:45 AM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
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  #46  
Old April 27th, 2005, 10:52 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
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no pierced top lever?
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  #47  
Old April 27th, 2005, 11:09 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
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What's a pierced top lever?
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  #48  
Old April 27th, 2005, 08:15 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,158
Jack,

Thanks for explaining to me what a "pierced top lever" is. EEEEEEK! Believe it or not, Krieghoff has made K-80's with pierced top levers:





If anything is uglier than a fancy K-80, I don't know what it is. It reminds me a metallic purple 993 with burlwood trim and gold-plated tags and black-ass tint and chrome rims and all the ugly-ass shit that people want today. And apparently these Pimp K-80's are very desirable and command a premium. Absolutely hideous.

For me, there will always be one and only one true K-80:





Here are some close-up pics of the K-80's barrel hanger that you wanted to see:










The K-80 System is designed around interchangeability and function, with aesthetics secondary. The barrel hanger has several functional advantages, some of which are clearly very real and some of which are more claimed/theoretical. The bottom barrel can expand and contract independently of the top barrel. In theory, this prevents warpage and maintains the point of impact better than if the two barrels were soldered together with ribs. Krieghoff claims better harmonics and superior patterning with the two barrels separated, which is questionable but plausible. For sure, there will be better heat dissipation and less mirage given the greater surface area of the two separate barrels. Krieghoff also claims less wind resistance for the separated barrels, which purportedly permits the gun to swing more freely side to side, if you can believe that one. A very real advantage is that the barrel assembly can be made lighter without ribs, which lets Krieghoff make the barrel walls slightly thicker without affecting the gun's balance. All K-80's that I know of have 3" magnum proofs, and can handle non-toxic shot without damage, which would be very hard or impossible with thin barrels.

Another advantage of the hanger system is that the point of impact of the lower barrel can be changed. You can see in the pic above that the hanger is held with a roll pin. If you punch out this roll pin, the hanger simply slides off the barrels. Here's a front view of the various hangers:




With the hanger dovetailed front to back and held in place with a roll pin, the hanger is secured against movement and yet can be interchanged by the user if he so desires.

As you can see, the various hanger sizes shift the point of impact of the lower barrel. Some shooters prefer to have the lower barrel print a 70/30 or 60/40 or 55/45 (top to bottom) or whatever pattern to suit various rising targets like a flushed bird or a rising clay target in trap, and then have the top barrel hit at point of aim. The vast majority of K-80 shooters, however, prefer to have both barrels hit at point of aim.

The result of all of this is that the K-80 is a very strange-looking shotgun. But it definitely has a beauty of its own, and I very much dig it. It's my ultimate shotgun.
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  #49  
Old April 28th, 2005, 07:34 AM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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I looked at one of these last night.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 686%20E%20Sporting.jpeg.jpg (6.2 KB, 211 views)
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  #50  
Old April 28th, 2005, 08:13 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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thataboy!
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