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  #76  
Old April 30th, 2005, 10:43 AM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
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Ok, now some trap questions...

Please explain "each pull is for six shooters".

The video shows different trajectories at different stands. Does the shooter know in advance what the trajectory will be?
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  #77  
Old April 30th, 2005, 10:46 AM
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John Lee
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I believe that's International/Olympic Skeet. American Skeet is different and there are many other variations as well.

On American Skeet, I believe the sequence is as follows:

station one: single from high house (pull), single from low house (mark), and then simultaneous double
station two: same as station one
station three: single from high house, single from low house
station four: same as station three
station five: same as stations three and four
station six: single from low house, single from high house, and then simultaneous double
station seven: same as station six
station eight: single from high house, single from low house

I believe that's the order but I'm far from sure. High house might always go first; I can't remember for sure. I think there's also an "option" in American Skeet, meaning that on the first target you miss you get a reshoot. If you go through the first 24 shots without missing, you reshoot the second shot on station eight. If you hit the last target, that's a perfect score. Again, this is from recollection only, so I'm not sure.

The shot sequence is very formalized in all skeet games and taken the same way every time in both games. In skeet the birds always fly the same way for every pull and the varying shooting stations add in the different angles. This is unlike trap, where there is a built-in, random variation to the clays' flight path for every shot.

On the sequences involving doubles, the shooter is free to break whatever clay he likes first, but usually most shooters first break the target going away, as that going-away target will likely be out of range if he takes it second.
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  #78  
Old April 30th, 2005, 11:00 AM
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Aaron Shrier
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I'm off to Turners...
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  #79  
Old April 30th, 2005, 01:14 PM
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John Lee
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So, when are you getting the 686 Sporting? LOL.
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  #80  
Old April 30th, 2005, 02:02 PM
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Aaron Shrier
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Yep. The 686 Sporting is the one. It just feels right. I'm going to look at a couple of them to compare wood.
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  #81  
Old April 30th, 2005, 02:31 PM
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John Lee
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Bam.
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  #82  
Old May 2nd, 2005, 06:45 PM
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Aaron Shrier
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  #83  
Old May 2nd, 2005, 06:56 PM
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John Lee
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Sucka, get the gun first. You can worry about extras later on.
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  #84  
Old May 2nd, 2005, 06:59 PM
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Aaron Shrier
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Pacific Sporting Arms is closed on Mondays. I'll call them in the morning.
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  #85  
Old May 3rd, 2005, 07:55 AM
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Jack Quinlan
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boresnake.
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  #86  
Old May 3rd, 2005, 08:29 AM
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Aaron Shrier
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You're a boresnake!
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  #87  
Old May 3rd, 2005, 09:29 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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You might want a pair of these:



I don't believe the 686 has chromed bores and chambers, so your chambers will be susceptible to corrosion. When you're out and sweating, it's very easy to get sweat on the hulls when you're loading. This sweat can get onto the chamber walls and rust the chambers if left unattended.

With these snap caps, you can oil the "wooly" portion and then insert them into the chambers to fight chamber corrosion. If you BoreSnake your weapon after every shooting, then these caps probably aren't needed. But they're cheap insurance for a nice gun.

This is also another nice snap cap to have:



One of the cool things about an ejector double (and your prospective 686 Sporting is an ejector) is that you can catch the ejected empties mid-air as you hinge open the gun. This way, your shooting partners don't get hit with ejected hulls. You can practice with these aluminum snap caps. These caps are also nice because they're not as prone to breaking as the plastic snap caps. The plastic snap caps start to break at the flange after repeated ejections.

Definitely get a BoreSnake as well:



A BoreSnake won't clean your weapon as well as a dedicated cleaning rod with a stiff bronze brush, but it's a very useful device. You won't have to lug around a rod every time you go shooting, and you can just toss the BoreSnake into your range bag. You can coat the BoreSnake with bore cleaner or oil or a combination of both and then run it through the bores a few times and that will remove a good deal of the fouling in the bores. It should also remove any salts in the chambers from your sweat. It won't do a super cleaning or anything but it will be enough. At a minimum, you can pre-clean with the BoreSnake by soaking the fouling and softening it a bit before you do a real cleaning later on. You don't have to get your shotgun super clean every time you shoot it. It's more important to get the weapon nice and oily and free of salts. And the BoreSnake and an oily rag are enough for this.

If you want to do the super cleaning thing, that Dewey shotgun rod is very nice. I have the exact same rod and I'm very happy with it. A rod without the plastic coating might be nice though, as the plastic is very easily shaved off by the sharp edges of the ejectors, chambers, and chokes.

For bore brushes, my favorite ones are the "Double Tuff" bronze brushes that Brownell's sells. These brushes feature kinked bristles that are very stiff and scrub a little harder than standard bore brushes. The bronze is soft and will not harm the bores in any way.

You might also need a 10-Bore bore brush for this 686, as it has backboring. I don't know just how large Beretta goes with its backboring. For example, my K-80's bores measure about .735". A standard 12 measures .729". Many other companies go to .740" or even .750". A lot of these larger backbored 12's require a 10-Bore brush for cleaning as the 12-Bore brush isn't large enough.

I've never felt the need for a chamber brush but it could hardly hurt.

That port cleaning tool won't be needed at all, as that tool looks to be designed to clean the gas ports on gas-operated self-loaders or the ports in ported barrels. Your 686 doesn't have either.
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  #88  
Old May 3rd, 2005, 09:49 AM
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Aaron Shrier
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I just spoke to a guy at Pacific Sporting Arms. He seems to think that the "$120 to swap the wood with 682 LH (cast on) wood " info from Beretta was wrong. (686 wood alone is $800 from Beretta) He felt even stronger that this was mis-information when the Beretta customer service rep quoted this right off the top of his head; because an entry level gun (the 686) is an unlikely choice for someone to spend much time/money custom fitting.

His recommendation (which I will do) is that I go to Pacific Sporting Arms and have John, who fits guns for them, look at me and see what he thinks.

Another option is to have Pacific Sporting Arms change the cast of the existing wood from cast off to neutral. The guy I spoke with said they could do that. Anyway... I'm off to Azusa on Sat.
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  #89  
Old May 3rd, 2005, 10:38 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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That's why shops like PSA are so good. Their prices are good, and you get so much more for your money than going to some place like Turner's.

Just exercise extreme caution when you go in the store. That 686 Sporting that looked so nice at Turner's suddenly may look quite different if you look too closely at the Perazzis and Krieghoffs there. You could easily walk in wanting a 686 and then walk out wanting a Perazzi. It's happened many times before.
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  #90  
Old May 3rd, 2005, 10:53 AM
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Aaron Shrier
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Or... I could just go back to Turner's and get the M2 Super 90 and say to hell with all of this!
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  #91  
Old May 3rd, 2005, 11:20 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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You could certainly get a Super 90 and be very happy with it. I'm very happy with my three Super 90's. I'm not sure if I'll be able to bring myself to sell my Super 90 Field after I get the K-80. We'll see.

But I think we need a range session so that you can shoot the repeater and the double and see which action type you prefer. Your gut reaction was to go with a double, and that says a lot I think. But you should try shooting the various guns to see what you like before you plop down the money for a double.
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  #92  
Old May 3rd, 2005, 11:30 AM
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Aaron Shrier
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I'm still go to Pacific Sporting Arms on Sat to talk to them. At least then I'll have all the info I need. Other than the feel of shooting each of them.
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  #93  
Old May 3rd, 2005, 11:55 AM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
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Jack where are you???

I can't believe that this gun related thread has gone on for as long as it has and you've had so little input!
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  #94  
Old May 3rd, 2005, 12:32 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Yeah, get all of your ducks lined up. The preparation stuff is half the fun, and almost as much fun as actually owning and shooting the gun.

But definitely don't buy the shotgun until we go shooting at least once so that you:

(1) can see if you even like shotgunning;
(2) see which action type you prefer.

Once I have my K-80, we can hit the range and you can try the repeater and double and see which one appeals to you more. I say we go to an informal range, where we can throw our own clay targets and you can learn on going-away birds. This is easier and a lot less intimidating than going to formal target range like Oak Tree or Triple B or whatever.

I just got back from Sharpshooter. They're sending out their FFL today to the seller's FFL. So the ball is definitely rolling now.
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  #95  
Old May 3rd, 2005, 09:34 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
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Aaron,

Just to pump you up a little more, here's some Perazzi Porn (short Real Player vids):

http://www.perazzi.it/dataentry/uplo...azienda_DSL.rm

http://www.perazzi.it/dataentry/uplo...esperte_DSL.rm

http://www.perazzi.it/dataentry/uplo...zazione_DSL.rm

http://www.perazzi.it/dataentry/uplo...sistenzaDSL.rm

You know, Perazzi USA is right here in Los Angeles. I'm sure Perazzi USA offers full fitting services too.

When you go to Pacific Sporting Arms this Saturday, take a look at a Perazzi. If you dare....
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  #96  
Old May 4th, 2005, 08:43 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traveltoad
Jack where are you???

I can't believe that this gun related thread has gone on for as long as it has and you've had so little input!


I'm just overcome with all the doublegun love.

A little part of me wishes the barrels were oriented correctly, the chokes were fixed, the grips straight and the missing trigger included, but I'll take what I can get.

I think it's very cool that everyone is getting into shotguns. As much as I dearly love my pistols and rifles the mileage I get out of my shotguns simply makes them more important at the end of the day. Some people (think John) will probably always consider shotguns "toys". To them, firearms are weapons. Weapons designed for human adversaries. And as such, the shotgun is a secondary weapon with specialty applications like an indirect or area weapon. I can totally see this line of reasoning, but for me the reality of my day to day usage has over the years caused a shift in my priorities. Strangely enough, for myself all of the pistol and rifle talk is just fun chit chat, while the shotgun discussion is much more down to business and relevant. I'll probably never shoot a person. I shoot birds 6 months out of the year.

I also can't believe that John threw down and got the K-80.
It might not be my dream gun, but I'm impressed by it.
I'm excited about the gun, and I'm excited for John.
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  #97  
Old May 4th, 2005, 01:43 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
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I've always lusted for a K-80. Back in college, I lusted after a Perazzi but then I saw the K-80 with the high-tech "K80" CNC'd into the sides of the receiver and then I just had to have a K-80. But of course there was no way I could bankroll a K-80 at the time.

Then in law school I was equally broke, but there was always a student loan available. I bought my P7K3 and one of my Super 90's during law school with student loan money. But by this time the CNC'd K-80 had been discontinued.

When I was practicing, there was money galore, but by this time the pimped out K-80's were all the rage and there was no indication that Krieghoff would bring back my dream gun. So I basically gave up on the K-80 thing.

Now things have come full circle and it appears as though I'll have my dream gun. I haven't seen this particular K-80 in person though so time will tell if this is the gun I've dreamed of and lusted for all of these years. For sure I would like to replace the buttstock and forend, but the steel portions of the gun (barrel length, barrel thickness, interchangeable Krieghoff steel chokes, receiver decoration, nickel finish, etc.) appear to be what I've lusted for all of these years.

My super duper armageddon ultimate dream K-80 would be a triggerlock instead of a boxlock like my gun, like so:



One of the cool things about the competition Perazzis is that most of them are triggerlocks. The Beretta ASE90 is the same way. But I can certainly live without the removable trigger. It just would have been a nice touch.

So if everything goes right with this deal, it will be the fulfillment of a decades-old dream.

Tito, get me some tissue...
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  #98  
Old May 4th, 2005, 02:09 PM
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Aaron Shrier
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
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There you are Jack!

The "shotgun craze" is the new fad for sure. I was at EE on Sat and and I think there were more shotgun related questions than LR related questions!

I am really excited to learn more about shotguns, learn about the "clay" sports, and doing a little hunting.
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  #99  
Old May 4th, 2005, 02:36 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Aaron, did you watch that last Perazzi vid where the guy tags that ZZ Bird and then when he hinges open the gun, he does that cool ass catch-the-ejected-hull-in-midair trick? Soon you'll be doing that with your double.
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  #100  
Old May 4th, 2005, 09:16 PM
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Aaron Shrier
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After watching the "cool ass catch-the-ejected-hull-in-midair trick", I don't know why anyone would buy anything other than a double..
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