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  #1  
Old July 17th, 2005, 05:30 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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K-80 SuperSport

As you know, the barrels on clay target guns are getting longer and longer. 30" and 32" are now the norm among many sporting clays shooters.

The 32" barrel on the K-80 has always been not completely satisfactory, because of excessive weight. The K-80 is a heavy gun to begin with, and fitting it with 32" barrels can make the gun clumsy and tiring. Furthermore, the K-80 with long barrels can feel very muzzle-heavy and can compromise the weapon's handling.

To help solve this problem, Alan Rone Kreighoff in the UK designed a "SuperSport" configuration featuring lighter barrels, narrower rib, and titanium barrel hanger, titanium choke tubes, and a keel weight in the buttstock ot achieve balance at the hinge pin (or wherever else the shooter desires). Krieghoff International recently released the Supersport configuration in the USA.

Here's the Krieghoff UK page on the SuperSport configuration:


http://www.krieghoff.co.uk/k80supersport.htm


And here's Krieghoff International's page on it:


http://www.krieghoff.com/pages/2.1.9/pages/2.1.9.html


Note the skeletonized titanium trigger now available. Ugly to be sure, but the K-80 thing is all about ugly.

Here's a review of the SuperSport (that predates the introduction of the skeletonized titanium trigger):


http://www.clay-shooting.com/guntest...supersport.pdf


I'm digging this new SuperSport. I think the titanium barrel hanger and vented trigger might look just right with the equally ugly "K80" machine engraving that Krieghoff unfortunately discontinued so many years ago.

If you've considered a K-80 but found it too beaucoup, check out a SuperSport.
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  #2  
Old July 20th, 2005, 11:41 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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...crickets chirping...


total internet silence = no K80 love



you might as well have written:

"hey guys, my name is John and I'm new to Land Rovers. I bought a LR3 Krieghoff edition and I just found this awsome sight. What choke tubes will fit my K80 super sport? 265/75?"

sorry man.
some roads you are meant to walk alone.
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  #3  
Old July 20th, 2005, 12:07 PM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
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  #4  
Old July 20th, 2005, 12:13 PM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
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Do you like this a little better Jack?

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  #5  
Old July 20th, 2005, 02:53 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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LOL. Yeah, I think the K-80 is too funky for mass appeal.
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  #6  
Old July 21st, 2005, 09:47 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traveltoad
Do you like this a little better Jack?



oh shit!

get it.


as for the K-80,
I certainly like aspects of its design and engineering. The styling is cult-quality ugly, but of course.
When I shot it I didn't shoot it particularly well, but then again I don't shoot most O/Us, particularly clays guns, well at all so no suprises there.
It's heavy and the balance is odd to me.
The trigger, as promised, is awsome. Incredibly crisp. John's glass rod analogy is spot on.
But I would guess that John, rather than being disappointed that certain people aren't drawn to the K-80, revels in the fact that this gun is so specifically suited to his tastes that few others see the appeal.
It's as if the gun was made for him.
And no one else is warped enough to like it, so John's delight is only increased.
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  #7  
Old July 21st, 2005, 09:54 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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You know it.
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  #8  
Old July 21st, 2005, 10:31 AM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
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Hit the nail squarely on the head Jack!!!!
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  #9  
Old July 21st, 2005, 10:35 AM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
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This particular 12g Ugartechea is only $650!!!! bbs are mod and full though...

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  #10  
Old July 21st, 2005, 11:35 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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The chokes are no big deal.
You can send them to Mike Orlen to be opened up.
My 20 bore came IC/MOD and it's opened up to CYL/SK2. Also had the forcing cones lengthened at the same time.

but I think you should hold out for a 20bore or, holiest of holies, the sweet 16.
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  #11  
Old July 21st, 2005, 11:42 AM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSQ
The chokes are no big deal.
You can send them to Mike Orlen to be opened up.
My 20 bore came IC/MOD and it's opened up to CYL/SK2. Also had the forcing cones lengthened at the same time.

but I think you should hold out for a 20bore or, holiest of holies, the sweet 16.

The 20bores are consistantly more $$$$ and I've never seen a 16 for sale.

But I'll keep looking.
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  #12  
Old July 22nd, 2005, 07:15 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traveltoad
The 20bores are consistantly more $$$$ and I've never seen a 16 for sale.

But I'll keep looking.

It's true that the small bores command a premium, but for a field gun I think you might want to hold out for one.

Although the prices consistently go up every year the new guns from Lion Country Supply still reperesent a very good value and the basic models are well within reach. I may well just buy my 16 new there in the next month or so.

check out :
http://www.doubleshotguns.com/

that's Lion Country's gun room.
Don't get distracted by the Grulla 209.
What an entry level sidelock!
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  #13  
Old July 22nd, 2005, 07:31 AM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
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I have indeed been spending some time at doubleshotguns.com. The "Grade I" guns are very reasonably priced.
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  #14  
Old July 22nd, 2005, 08:54 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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For the Ugartecheas, I think my favorite is the Grade I Extractor, in 20-Bore with 28" barrels, and IC/MOD chokes. It's not fancy or anything; just a solid field gun and a solid shooter at a very good price. It's not a wannabe Uptown gun by any means, as are most SxS's on the market today. Rather, it is what it is: just a solid gun.

Between the 16- and 20-Bores, my personal preference would probably be the 20, at least with this particular gun. One of the draws of the 16 is its supposed ability to be chambered in a gun as light as a 20 and yet it still has the power of a 12. The 16 is supposed to combine the best attributes of the 12 and 20 into a single gun. This it certainly can do. However, that level of Nirvana does not yet exist, because 16 loads are so limited in variety at this time and there's so little load development going on because of the limited demand. Also, a very high percentage of current 16's are built on 12-Bore receivers, which negates the theoretical weight advantage of a 16. Why shoot a 16 at all if the gun is sized like a 12?

Then there's power. Lion Country's site says that the Ugartechea 16-Bore has 2.75" chambers while the 20-Bore has 3" chambers. The 3" 20-Bore is easily capable of 1 1/8 oz. loads @ 1250 f/s. That is awesome performance from such a small shell. (Not that you would want that kind of power all the time from your 20. Shooting these loads from such a light gun would be punishing.) A 3" 16 would be capable of more, but no such loads exist to the best of my knowledge. Even if they did, this Ugaretechea couldn't handle them as it has 2.75" chambers. 20-Bore is also considerably cheaper to shoot and ammunition with widely varying loads is much more available.

So this 20 would be just as powerful as this 16, and the gun would still be lighter and slimmer, and the gun would be cheaper to shoot as well with more readily available ammunition of widely varying loads. That's a killer combo from my way of looking at things. For equal shot charges and equal velocities, the 16 might pattern a little better and with a shorter shot string, but I don't think the difference would be meaningful. I'll take the 20, at least at this point in time.

It might be different if the Ugartechea 16 has a different locking mechanism than the 20. It very well could. For example, Jack's 12 had a three-bite locking system while his 20 had two bites. If the 16 had three bites, that would definitely make it much more attractive to me.

If you must have ejectors, the Grade III Ejector is available with case-colored receiver for $2,000. I would rather pay the extra $1,000 though and get that traditional Silver Hawk, if only for those bitchin angled locking lugs and the nicer wood. The Silver Hawk also has selectable ejection, meaning you can turn it into an extractor by fidding with the forend iron.

But Jack, definitely get that 16. I'm dying to shoot a 16. I've never even seen one in person, let alone shot one. You have the 20's and 12's already, so a 16 would be a sweet addition. The foregoing stuff about 20 vs. 16 was more for Aaron and his different situation.
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  #15  
Old July 22nd, 2005, 09:24 AM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
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Thanks John.

I like the idea of the 16, but I think you are right, it makes more sense to get a 20 first. If I decide that I "need" a 16 later on then I'll get one.

I was watching "Mastering the Double Gun" last night (until my power went out). I have a serious case of SxS lust!!!!!!
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  #16  
Old July 22nd, 2005, 10:49 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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You'll "need" a 16 eventually. It's only a matter of time.

Mastering the Double Gun is a great DVD. I think that and Wingshooting are my favorites of all of the Sunrise DVD's.

That E.J. Churchill Shooting Ground is awesome too. What a sweet place. I think it's the nicest shotgun range I've seen.
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  #17  
Old July 25th, 2005, 08:14 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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OK, if the K-80 has no mass appeal, what about the Essencia?

These are the first shots of the Essencia that I've seen that didn't come from Krieghoff:








Drilling Hotline has that Essencia in stock. Here's the sale listing:

"Available for Immediate Delivery

One 20 gauge Essencia, 28" barrels with 3" chambers
Round-body, Back-action sidelock with a Purdey-style third fastener

Choked IC and Mod
Slightly raised solid rib
Automatic selective ejectors (H&H style)
Front metal 'pearl' bead sight
Double triggers, the front articulated
Gold-washed trigger and lockwork
Gold-plated cocking indicators
Fine English scroll engraving: color case-hardening
"Krieghoff" engraved in gold on both sides of the action body

Automatic sliding tang safety
Trigger guard edges are rolled; guard tang with decorative tip
Classic 'English' Straight-grip stock in select Turkish walnut, with checkered butt and Tru-oil finish
Semi-beavertail forearm, Purdey-style pushbutton release
Weight is under 6 1/2 pounds
Krieghoff leather case with protective canvas cover

POR (S 113)
call 845-496-7584
please, no e-mails

The Essencia is a hand-built gun

Only a limited number will be produced each year"


I love the Essencia's action shape. I'm not into the gold trigger thing, but I think the gold triggers actually look good with this gun. They somehow "work" on this gun, with its gold engraving and elegant trigger shapes.

I just caught myself dreaming of a K-80 SuperSport (with "K80" machine engraving of course and funky Ti bits and pieces everywhere) as my target gun and that Essencia as my field gun. What a combo that would be! Truly Beauty and the Beast.

The "no e-mails" is a crack-up. This place probably gets a dozen emails a day asking, "How much is shipping on that Essencia?"
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  #18  
Old July 25th, 2005, 10:02 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
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That is sweet...

Under 6 1/2 lbs, 28" barrels...

I bet it feels ultra light and balanced. Kinda like a vintage Lotus Seven.

I like the turkish walnut and case-hardened look.
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  #19  
Old July 25th, 2005, 11:58 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Well I really like it, but 6.5 lbs for a 20 bore is way heavy.
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  #20  
Old July 26th, 2005, 08:16 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Here are Krieghoff's specs for the Essencia:


"Specifications for the Krieghoff Essencia Side-by-Side Sidelock Shotgun:

* 20 Gauge, 28” barrels (26.5” and 30” also available) with 3” chambers
* Now also available in 12 Gauge, 28" or 30 ", with 2 3/4" chambers
* Round-body, back-action sidelock with a Purdey-style third fastener
* Choked 1/4 and 1/2 (IC/Mod)
* Non-ventilated, slightly raised rib
* Automatic selective ejectors (H&H style)
* Front metal ‘pearl’ bead sight
* Double triggers, the front articulated; gold-washed triggers and lockwork
* Fine English scroll engraving; color case-hardening
* Gold-plated cocking indicators
* “KRIEGHOFF” engraved in gold on both sides of the action body
* Automatic sliding tang safety
* Trigger guard edges are rolled; guard tang with decorative tip
* Straight-grip stock in select Turkish walnut, with checkered butt
* Tru-oil finish
* Semi-beavertail forearm, Purdey-style pushbutton release
* Approximate weight: 6-1/4 lbs in 20 Gauge; 6-3/4 lbs in 12 Gauge
* Krieghoff leather trunk case

Extra-cost Options for the Krieghoff Essencia :

* Single non-selective trigger
* Non-automatic safety
* Wood upgrades ‘ Special Select to Very Best
* Custom engraving (buyer's choice)
* Finish options (coin-silver nitride, etc.)
* Initials in gold on trigger guard
* Initials in gold oval inlaid in bottom of buttstock
* Briley thin-wall interchangeable choke tubes
* Deluxe Oak/Leather case with accessories
* Extra 16-gauge barrels with forend (fit on 20-gauge frame)
* Extra 28-gauge barrels with forend (fit on 20-gauge frame)
* Extra 20-gauge barrels (no extra forend necessary)"


I'm kinda digging the idea of 30" barreled 20-Bore, with 3" chambers, choked IC/MOD, double triggers (preferably case colored), non-automatic safety, and splinter forend. If the gun is on the heavy side, I could always have the forcing cones lengthened and the barrels backbored, and then hollow out the buttstock to balance the gun. But I doubt I would have to do that. After shooting a 8.75 lb. K-80, I'm sure this 6.25 lb. Essencia would feel like a feather.

Jack, Krieghoff also has a 16-Bore barrel and forend available. That might make the Essencia more palatable to you. It would be sort of like that Merkel 1620, but Uptown.
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  #21  
Old July 26th, 2005, 11:37 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Jack,

Might you like this one a little better?:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/co...equestid=35932
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  #22  
Old July 26th, 2005, 12:11 PM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
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That's funny. I would never have thought of Cabela's for an Essencia... or any Krieghoff for that matter.
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  #23  
Old July 26th, 2005, 01:14 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
Jack,

Might you like this one a little better?:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/co...equestid=35932


That's pretty nice.
very nice actually.


but please stop this talk of 30" bbls on a 20 bore.
what a broom stick.
28" is the max.
We're not talking XZLs here, the taller and skinnier not always the better.
Besides, anything longer than 28" is awkward if you're not in a duck blind.

I think that the 20 is a better choice for Aaron, but not b/c it's superior to the 16 by any means.
The 16 bore achieves perfection not by "matching" any particular load or ballistics but by delivering a sufficient charge in a normal 2 3/4" shell with desirable handling and negligible recoil.
My 20 has 3" chambers and I could put some hot hot hamburger/shoulder maker load in there, but why? Just to eek a little more performance out of a small gun?
Again the tire analogy: 3" shells with a hot load and lots of shot in a 20 bore is like putting 35s on your disco. If you drive your disco well and choose carefully, 235/85s will do it all with very little in the way of drawbacks. Why butcher your truck or pound your shoulder just to get a little more when good driving or good shooting is all you need. If you must have more then step up to a defender or shoot a 12 bore.
But the 16 doesn't exist in the rover world. The 16 would be a disco comfort and capacity rover with defender approach angles and steel bumpers. It would be perfect just the way it is. No mods, just right from the beginning.

As much as I think the 1620 concept is cool, I'd rather have a "true" 16. It's just magic. I really like some of the Arrieta 16s. And the Simsons. So many good 16s but so hard to find. Everyone seems to be buying them up and the prices are skyrocketing.
Actually...

You're right, 16s are pointless. No one should buy one. Just carry a 12 and have enough gun or put some 3"ers in your 20. You can't even find ammo for the 16 at walmart. Talk about unsuitable. You'd probably kill yourself by putting a 20 bore shell in there by mistake. Nope, 16s are worthless. What was I thinking. Everyone go out and tell there friends not to buy 16s. Might as well shoot black powder hammer guns.
Nothing to see hear.
Move along.
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  #24  
Old July 26th, 2005, 02:13 PM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSQ
You're right, 16s are pointless. No one should buy one. Just carry a 12 and have enough gun or put some 3"ers in your 20. You can't even find ammo for the 16 at walmart. Talk about unsuitable. You'd probably kill yourself by putting a 20 bore shell in there by mistake. Nope, 16s are worthless. What was I thinking. Everyone go out and tell there friends not to buy 16s. Might as well shoot black powder hammer guns.
Nothing to see hear.
Move along.

I can't believe anyone would even own a 16!!! Everyone who own's one should sell it! Right away. Get out while you can! Prices will drop and they will be worthless. Sell SELL SELL!!!



Does that help at all Jack?
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  #25  
Old July 26th, 2005, 03:05 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traveltoad
I can't believe anyone would even own a 16!!! Everyone who own's one should sell it! Right away. Get out while you can! Prices will drop and they will be worthless. Sell SELL SELL!!!



Does that help at all Jack?


Think big, think positive, never show any sign of weakness. Buy low, sell high. Fear? That's the other guy's problem. Nothing you have ever experienced will prepare you for the unlimited carnage you are about to witness. Superbowl, World Series -- they don't know what pressure is. In this building, it's either kill or be killed. You make no friends in the pits and you take no prisoners. One moment you're up half a mil in soybeans and the next, boom, your kids don't go to college and they've repossessed your Bentley. Are you with me?
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