Expedition Exchange Bulletin Boards  

Go Back   Expedition Exchange Bulletin Boards > General
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old January 12th, 2006, 07:15 PM
hochung hochung is offline
Ho Chung
W6HC
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
Posts: 2,006
LOL
____________________
Ho Chung

Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old January 12th, 2006, 07:17 PM
parantaeyang parantaeyang is offline
Won Park
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ventura, California
Posts: 503
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old January 12th, 2006, 08:24 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
I just finished disassembling and studying the Kel-Tec, and I must say that its simplicity and method of operation really impress me. The weapon is very simple. There are very few steel parts and the vast majority of the weapon is plastic. The bolt carrier even glides against plastic receiver walls and plastic guide rails. The Kel-Tec should come in orange, silver, yellow, foam, and no-foam versions. It's that plasticky.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old January 12th, 2006, 09:50 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,287
Yep. When I looked at one at Turner's last week I asked the sales guy if there was any steel parts besides the barrel and bolt. Seemed like a substantial portion of the receiver itself was plastic.

Good luck-
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old January 13th, 2006, 08:53 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
Will someone just indulge me and explain to me why the mini-14 won't do the job?


I mean if you're willing to buy the kel-tec...
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old January 13th, 2006, 10:52 AM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
The Kel-Tec is a beater. It's intended to be a beater, nothing more. The Mini 14 is is a beater, but it tries to be legit. If I could analogize to shotguns, I'm willing to buy a beater coach gun, but I'm not willing to buy a Ruger Gold Label.

More importantly, the Mini 14 is too long for my application. I need something that is less than 32" long, as I stated previously. A Mini 14 is more than 32" long. If I wanted to haul around a .223 that is longer than 32", then I would haul around my HK43 rather than stooping so low as a Mini 14. Why stoop down to that level when I already own an HK43, which is the nicest .223 around?

I could even fit my A3 telescoping buttstock to my HK43 and make it shorter than 32" in OAL. But I won't because I'm looking for a beater.

Sorry, but you guys can't seem to grasp the idea that I'm looking for a POS. I'm not looking for a nice battle carbine. I already have those.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old January 13th, 2006, 11:31 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
to me the mini 14 is straight beater.
if it's trying to be legit it missed it's mark with me.

but i understand the length issue, although I was thinking ram line POS folding stock or some such.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old January 13th, 2006, 11:36 AM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
Oh yeah, the Mini 14 tries to be legit. Not uptown, but legit.

I'm not sure if those Ram Line folding stocks are legal on post-ban Mini 14's. Not that I would stoop that low anyway. If I'm looking to buy a POS,then I want a true POS and nothing wannabe legit or wannabe Uptown. A Timex instead of a TAG, for example.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old January 13th, 2006, 01:07 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
Like getting an Omega if you can't afford the Breguet right?
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old January 13th, 2006, 01:15 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
Yeah, that's it.

That's the same reason why I have a K-80 instead of a Boss Over/Under.

That's the same reason why I have a P7 instead of a Korth.

That's the same reason why I have a Defender instead of a Range Rover.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old January 13th, 2006, 02:34 PM
koby koby is offline
Craig Kobayashi
KG6CK
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 442
The same reason you have a IC-706MkIIG instead of a FT-2800M

Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old January 13th, 2006, 02:50 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
If I could just correct, I believe it's Holland & Holland and Range Rover:

Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old January 13th, 2006, 03:07 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
so how bout some in-hand pics of the kel-tec?
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old January 13th, 2006, 03:43 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
I might snap some pics tomorrow. There's just no love with this Kel-Tec thing, just as there was no love with my CZ .416 (which hasn't been fired yet and just sits there).

For those of you who are considering a knockabout truck gun but (quite understandably) can't stand the Kel-Tec, this is a very nice choice:

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodin...d=130&cat=003C

It's a takedown model. Winchester says it will be less than 20" long when broken down for transport. This version also comes with ghost-ring sights.

I'm digging the .44 Mag version. A 10-shot .44 Mag lever action is a very serious weapon. In skilled hands it's Armageddon. And the weapon's magazine can be "topped up" without disabling the weapon, which is a very nice feature. The Takedown is also available in the traditional .30-30 if you prefer that caliber.

The 1894 is also very non-assault looking too, which I think is a good thing. I wish the Kel-Tec were molded in dayglo orange or some funky color, if only to make it look more like some kind of safety flare gun or confused Pelican case instead of a wannabe AR.

For those of you who distrust takedowns or don't have a weird 32" OAL limit, there is always the traditional 1894 Trapper with 16" barrel:

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodin...d=094&cat=003C

The Trapper is slightly shorter than the assembled takedown, but of course doesn't break down into two pieces. The Trapper also comes with open sights instead of aperture sights. You can easily fit ghost-ring sights to the Trapper if you so desire. Big 5 had the .44 and .30-30 Trappers for $350 about two weeks ago.

I'm even digging this one:

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodin...d=125&cat=003C

The bad thing about the Trapper Compact is that it's chambered only in .357 and not .44 Mag or .30-30. Still, you could get the stock and put it on a .44 or .30-30 Trapper if you wanted.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old January 13th, 2006, 04:01 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
But is the 1894 also part of this "beaters be true unto thyself" thing?

Because the Marlin lever action carbines aren't any more expensive and they are worlds better. The top ejection on the Winchesters is pretty awful and they jam quite a bit. I've used the 94 "trapper" in .357 mag extensively and it's not a very good gun. I don't know that I would trust it.

Now the Marlin doesn't qualify because it's not take down and doesn't meet your 32" overall length requirement but it illustrates the operational shortcomings of the winchester.

Is the Norinco 1897 Trench gun copy take down like the original guns were?
If so, that could be the perfect choice.


that pic makes it look like it might not be.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old January 13th, 2006, 04:36 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
I'm not sure where the 1894 stands in the gun/social strata thing. Certainly, the 1894 is not a wannabe Uptown gun. Sure, there are many wannabe Uptown 1894's out there with octagonal barrels and engraving and gold everywhere. These remind me of those ridiculous blued and engraved 870's. But the standard 1894 models just are what they are and aren't really trying to go Uptown.

I wouldn't call the 1894 a beater either. A Mini 14 is a beater to me because the vast majority of people who buy Mini 14's do so because they can't afford an AR15 or think the AR15 is "overpriced" or whatever monetary rationalization you can think of. That makes the Mini 14 a beater. Note the plethora of aftermarket stocks, magazines, assault rifle conversion kits, bullpup kits, and so on for the Mini 14. You know, stuff like this:


























These cheeseball accessories exist and proliferate because the Mini 14 owners tend to be cheeseballs. In contrast, I don't think most people who buy 1894's do so because of price.

What's hilarious too about all of that junk above is that the Mini 14 owners end up spending more than if they had purchased an AR. An AR is hardly expensive. But with the Mini 14 and add-ons, they can buy over time as their limited budgets allow. It's sort of like the "no payments until April 2007" plan for their rifle. I have a bad feeling we'll be seeing stuff like that for the Kel-Tec.

The Marlins are certainly workable weapons but I prefer the 1894, if only because the 1894's look more traditional to me. Their archaic design looks "right" on a lever action to me. After all, the lever action was the first successful repeater design. The lever action also generally suffers from a lack of locking and camming strength compared to the bolt action. For these reasons, I prefer the archaic design of the 1894 to the Marlin. If you're looking to buy a piece of shit, buy a true piece of shit.

And I've had nothing but good luck with the numerous 1894's I've shot. I've never owned one, but I have shot more than a dozen different 1894's in .30-30 with consistently good results. I'm not talking a religious experience or anything. Just the 1894's I've shot all fed, fired, and ejected reliably.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old January 13th, 2006, 05:58 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,287
LOL

Well, when the Kel-tec falls apart or melts on the hood of your truck I'll start looking for the lever-action Winchester on the gun rack in the back of the D90.

Next come the stars and bars and #3 stickers...

The 1894 in .30-30 wouldn't be a bad beater rifle. The again, neither would the mini-14 in .223.

That Auto Ordnance M1 carbine even with a nice walnut stock is still almost $100 less at Turners than the Kel-Tec. I might just get one.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old January 16th, 2006, 01:27 PM
The Limey The Limey is offline
Marcus Goldhawke
KK4NTX
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: clermont-fl
Posts: 22
____________________
97 Toyota Land Cruiser
05 KLR 650

Kk4ntx

Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old January 16th, 2006, 03:27 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
tag.

Whatever that means.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old January 17th, 2006, 01:40 PM
The Limey The Limey is offline
Marcus Goldhawke
KK4NTX
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: clermont-fl
Posts: 22
User Info
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HOLD OFF on purchasing.

mine suffered a catastrophic failure with winchester whitebox ammo today. upper reciever completely disentigrated and bolt was found about 20' behind me. Had i been a few inches higher on the bore it would be in my forhead right now.

pics and info sent to kel-tec. waiting to hear back from them. will post pics after hearing from kel-tec. My initial thought is it fired out of battery but i will await their information.



That was the gist ofthis dudes range report...just something to be aware of.
m,
____________________
97 Toyota Land Cruiser
05 KLR 650

Kk4ntx

Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old January 17th, 2006, 03:04 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
Yeah, I saw that post.

tag.


tag.


tag.


Whatever that means.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old January 17th, 2006, 03:42 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
tag for pics.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old July 7th, 2006, 06:26 AM
traveltoad traveltoad is offline
Aaron Shrier
KI6BCA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 2,625
I am not sure how you feel about lever action... but have you seen the Alaskan Copilot?
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old July 7th, 2006, 07:33 AM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
I like lever actions. Those Alaskan Copilots are nice.

If I got a lever action though, I would get the Winchester 94. I like how the 94 looks broken when it's open. Its locking mechanism is so Victorian. It just looks more appropriate to me on a lever action than a more modern design with a rotating bolt head. I think Browning had such a design a while back. It could contain the pressures of modern rifle cartridges but it was hideous. Yuck.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old July 7th, 2006, 12:11 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
So now that the boxes are chock full and the search isn't quite as relevant anymore are you going to unload the keltec?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:44 AM.




Copyright 2001-2012 Expedition Exchange Incorporated. All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.