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  #76  
Old September 30th, 2008, 01:00 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
My beater, throw in the back of the truck, plinker is my "trusty" old Mini-14, complete with cheesy Choate folding stock to get it under 30". Sure it's a POS like your Kel-Tec.....but unlike your Kel-Tec it ain't no Kel-Tec.


You're kidding me, right? You own a USP and a Mini-14, and I'm a chump because I own a Kel-Tec?

At least I know my Kel-Tec is a POS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadir_E
even if John wanted to put the choate folding stock on a Mini-14, California's assault weapon ban makes that illegal (detachable magazine + pistol grip = bad), so he'd be stuck with the full length version.


Man, why is this so hard for you guys to understand? I wanted a beater.

I have nice guns already. Not to toot my own horn, but I have some pretty nice shit in my stash.

I have an HK43. I have an HK91. I have the HK claw mounts, Zeiss Diavari SG/1 scopes, PSG1 trigger packs, PSG1 buttstocks, A2 fixed buttstocks, A3 telescoping buttstocks, PSG1 adjustable pistol grips, .22LR conversion kits, bipods, slings, magazines galore, spare parts, etc. for BOTH of these weapons. When is the last time you saw a .22LR conversion kit for the HK33/43/53/93? These things aren't exactly floating around. These extras are worth more than the two rifles.

I have an HK770. I have an HK630. I have an HK300. I have HK05 claw mounts for each of these rifles. The HK05 claw mounts are worth as much as the rifles.

I have the SL6, SL6, and HK270.

I have three Super 90s. All were imported by HK Inc. and are so marked. I have factory Benelli extension mags on all of them. I have spare parts for all of them.

I have four P7s.

I have two P9s.

I have a VP70Z.

I have an HK4.

I have an EFL and P2A1.

I have some nice guns. Again, this isn't my dream collection or anything. But it is a lot of people's dream collections. It's certainly nothing to sneeze at. If I had the HK94, then I really wonder what else I would want without going to NFA weapons.

The entire point of this Kel-Tec was to get a beater. I didn't get the Kel-Tec because I wanted a nice battle carbine but couldn't bankroll it. I didn't get the Kel-Tec because I wanted a nice battle carbine but my only two California-legal choices were the Kel-Tec and the Mini-14. Lots of people are in those unenviable situations. I'm not.
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  #77  
Old September 30th, 2008, 01:24 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
Okay, now I feel better.

Bill, the Mini-14 is every bit the piece of shit that the Kel-tec is.
A pimp Mini is even worse.
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  #78  
Old September 30th, 2008, 01:26 PM
Nadir_E
 
Posts: n/a
John - I fully understood the purpose of the Kel-Tec as a truck/beater rifle - and you do have an impressive collection of firearms. I was simply pointing out the limitations placed on post-ban weapons here in California since Blue was making a comparison between your Kel-Tec and something that can't be had here any longer.

I think the idea of a beater is a good one - something you don't worry about and use as originally intended instead of treating it like a museum piece (which many are prone to do with firearms in general, let alone with now-banned items). Odds are it'll work when you need it and it won't break the bank (or your heart) if it's damaged or stolen.

Blue - I can appreciate the early application of the brakes as you moved west. Too many reasons for me to stay here to contemplate moving east (or north). Enjoy that added bit of freedom we can't!

-N
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  #79  
Old September 30th, 2008, 01:57 PM
blue blue is offline
Bill Gill, aka chump hater
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 1,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
You're kidding me, right? You own a USP and a Mini-14, and I'm a chump because I own a Kel-Tec?

At least I know my Kel-Tec is a POS.

Oh, I know the mini-14 is a POS, as I said up above. All it's good for is hitting the broad side of barns. But kel-tec is.....what did Jack say, you'll be the envy of mall security guards everywhere? LOL.

And my old USP 40 is still my favorite.
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  #80  
Old September 30th, 2008, 01:59 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSQ
the Mini-14 is every bit the piece of shit that the Kel-tec is.


Well, my Kel-Tec is still running.
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  #81  
Old October 2nd, 2008, 11:44 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
Oh, I know the mini-14 is a POS, as I said up above. All it's good for is hitting the broad side of barns. But kel-tec is.....what did Jack say, you'll be the envy of mall security guards everywhere? LOL.

And my old USP 40 is still my favorite.


I'm calling you out, Bill.

You live in a state where you can own absolutely fucking anything you want.

What's your go to battle carbine?

Break it out.




...and it better be fucking sweet.
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  #82  
Old October 2nd, 2008, 03:46 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,060
Agreed.

Bust out your shit that is so fucking sweet that being able to own it made you want to stop moving once you hit Arizona.

Not the Mini-14 with folding stock that you say is your beater trunk gun. Bust out your sweet ass select-fire sturmgewehr that is so fucking awesome that when I get a glimpse of it I will be overcome with an irresistible urge to conquer Poland.
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  #83  
Old October 2nd, 2008, 04:39 PM
blue blue is offline
Bill Gill, aka chump hater
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 1,171
All I have here with me in AZ is my Mini-14. I wouldn't exactly call it my battle carbine because I've never taken it to a battle. I've never had much love for long guns in general, although that HK43 looks pretty nice.
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  #84  
Old October 2nd, 2008, 11:56 PM
kennith kennith is offline
kennith
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 46
I must protest... well. Not really.

My Keltec P32 is a cheap little firearm. That's what it is. It does a good job doing the job it was meant for, and that is being small and reliable. It wasn't reliable when I bought it, but now it is fixed, and I haven't had an issue since. I can tuck it away easily, and given my small size, this is a valuable ability. I don't have to bury it to make it disappear, I can leave it accessible. The more I shoot it, the more I like it and appreciate what it is. It will never be anything as nice as those HKs, though, but then, HK doesn't make anything like this. Nobody does, until recently. There have been little pistols in the past, but nothing quite like it. I've got most of them, I've repaired and slicked most of them up. I've got two lemon squeezers in my house right now that I am working on right now. One only needs a bit of lube and it will be fine.

I've got a British Bulldog over here, I just sent off a baby Browning, and the list goes on. I recently sold a Ruger LCP, which was an absolutely horrid thing to own. The only people now really trying to compete is Kahr, and I expect it will be better than the Keltec, but it had better be better when they are asking close to 3.5 times the price. Even the Kahr, though, has design problems that the little Keltec doesn't have, but nothing too serious.

To me, this little .32 is more than a beater. It is something that exists currently without peer. It's not as good as it could be, but it's better than the other options, until that Kahr becomes properly available, if it isn't already. Not having used the Kahr, I cannot be sure yet.

Now, speaking of rifles, if I had a collection like yours, I would indeed look at Keltecs offerings as beaters. There are so many better rifles out there, but this is a different story. With pocket autos, there just isn't much available that is worth owning besides Keltec.

Personally, I don't own a proper battle rifle like you present. I have a Thompson over here, with a couple of drums. I like it a lot, but I'd love to have one of those sweet HKs. I do have that drilling, and I also have my Lever action Winchester .22.

So far as pistols are concerned however, my new USFA is my pride and glory. That thing is sexy. I know, single action isn't for everyone, but I can dig it. I think it can safely be said that that thing is no POS.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #85  
Old October 3rd, 2008, 01:21 PM
parantaeyang parantaeyang is offline
Won Park
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ventura, California
Posts: 503
So, if the Kel-Tec is a beater, what do you consider to be the good rifles and/or calbines that are legal in California at the moment?
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  #86  
Old October 3rd, 2008, 01:59 PM
kennith kennith is offline
kennith
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 46
Gosh darnit. I just can't win. That's what I get for posting around here without looking first.

Either way, both are sweet.

While reducing my own collection, I have been thinking about purchasing some sort of rifle for myself, aside from the Winchester I have. I'm just not a big rimfire fan. I've got two firearms in .22, my Ruger MK II, purchased simply because I think it is good looking, and the Winchester Model 9422. The Winchester was a bit of an impulse thing, but I still like it.

I've just got to sit back and decide what I want. The AR thing is a given, since I have plenty of experience with the 16, but I just never liked it. I can make it work, but I don't like it.

I know this is going to sound redneck as all hell, but I do enjoy the SKS models quite a bit. Seems like every hick this side of Texas wants a 1911 and an SKS. The first time I fired one, I noted just how poised and balanced the thing was. The extra weight up front helps me, as I have some nerve damage on my left side, and I need something hefty enough to control my sway a little. That was always a problem with the 16. I shot well with it, but even with all the sling wrapping in the world, I never shot as well as I did with heavier firearms.

Hauling the extra weight of a heavier firearm isn't a problem for me at all, but trying to control a featherweight rifle is. Something better balanced for me may get away with being light, I've got to go around and try a few things again. It's been a while since I went shopping for something like this.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #87  
Old October 3rd, 2008, 06:42 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,287
Quote:
Originally Posted by parantaeyang
So, if the Kel-Tec is a beater, what do you consider to be the good rifles and/or calbines that are legal in California at the moment?

"Good" is relative.

For rifle my vote is the M1A. For carbine-Mini-14.

However, there are alot of legal AR builders with off-list receivers, "fixed" magazines (bullet blocks, etc.). I hate them myself and think the only advantage is the relative ease to re-convert them.
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  #88  
Old October 3rd, 2008, 10:00 PM
blue blue is offline
Bill Gill, aka chump hater
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 1,171
Beautiful photography, and a beautiful collection. I am envious. I surely wish I had the disposable income to match it (which I cannot).

But I'm left wondering....what, for you, defines a battle rifle or a battle carbine?
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  #89  
Old October 4th, 2008, 06:11 AM
kennith kennith is offline
kennith
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 46
I'm not saying they aren't cheap and fun to shoot, of course I agree with that. That's why I still have two of them. Gods, if I used my .45 Colts every time I went to the range, I'd be broke already. The .22s are good for developing decent habits and training, also for target shooting and general fun.

But aside from shooting small animals, that's almost all they are good for.

My point is, the next rifle I'm after isn't primarily going to be about fun. I don't know what I want yet, but I'm slowly looking around, deciding what might work well for me and what might not.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #90  
Old October 4th, 2008, 07:40 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
what, for you, defines a battle rifle or a battle carbine?

The highest authority of them all: Jeff Cooper.

I can tell you never read our heated discussions on this thread:

http://www.expeditionexchange.com/fo...read.php?t=440

DiscoWeb was working when those discussions were going on, so that's probably why you missed them. But take a look.
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  #91  
Old October 4th, 2008, 08:49 AM
thomaskimura thomaskimura is offline
Thomas Kimura
N6BZ
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
Yep, I realize that. CA's gun laws are one of the major reasons why I stopped in AZ when I decided to move west.

Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
All I have here with me in AZ is my Mini-14. I wouldn't exactly call it my battle carbine because I've never taken it to a battle. I've never had much love for long guns in general, although that HK43 looks pretty nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
Quote:
Originally Posted by greghirst
AZ is an open carry state. Why weren't you carrying?
My cordovan rig would have clashed with my black suit.

Hopefully you at least have a CCW...
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  #92  
Old October 4th, 2008, 09:32 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
KI6CTP
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
I've never had much love for long guns in general, although that HK43 looks pretty nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
But I'm left wondering....what, for you, defines a battle rifle or a battle carbine?

WTF??!!

You mean to say that in all of your time sitting around the campfire with your old family friend, Jeff Cooper, he never impressed upon you the supremacy of the long gun and the distinction between full-power rifles and battle carbines?

Or is it that you know Cooper's position, but you dismiss it for your own reasons?

Please, explain.
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  #93  
Old October 4th, 2008, 11:25 AM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,287
Bill-

Just go buy a few truly sweet rifles and carbines that we can't have and wave them in our faces.

That's certainly a better investment than the market these days and it would also be the best STFU you could do right now.

Here's a few:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/984617914...Condition.htm#

http://www.gunsamerica.com/969230897...tical/HK_9.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/916560269...S_MAGAZINE.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/993777354...A2_REDUCED.htm

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...=112036580#PIC

Crap, you could even buy one of these cool semi-auto reproductions:

http://www.ssd-weapon.com/index.htm

Last edited by greghirst : October 4th, 2008 at 11:31 AM.
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  #94  
Old October 4th, 2008, 02:17 PM
Nadir_E
 
Posts: n/a
Buy it, Greg! We'll arrange a road trip for a range day in NV or AZ afterwards so you can run it the right way!!
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  #95  
Old October 4th, 2008, 04:36 PM
kennith kennith is offline
kennith
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 46
There is a shop right down the road from me with what appears to be some sort of semi-auto PDW hanging in the back. Never knew they made them like that, but I swear that's what it has to be. It's an MP5 alright, and it appears to be the right size and shape to be a PDW, though it doesn't have the second grip on the muzzle end. It has some sort of lip there, though, a little bump facing downward, if I recall. I haven't been back there in a long while, so I can't remember. Those guys are complete assholes, so I go to a different store.

All I know is it was damn expensive. I have always wanted one of the MP5 variants, but people really want money for them. I have no use for full auto, nor the desire for it. That's the first one I've seen in semi.

Cheers,

Kennith
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  #96  
Old October 5th, 2008, 01:24 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,287
Quote:
Originally Posted by greghirst

LOL

It's no longer listed. I wonder if Tom Kimura's student loans took a small hit? Or perhaps Jack actually loosened the tight grip on his wallet?

That would be cool.
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  #97  
Old October 5th, 2008, 01:48 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,287
LOL-Oh man...

The seller posted the rifle and same pics on Gunbroker for alot more $$.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=112141990

Last edited by greghirst : October 5th, 2008 at 01:51 PM.
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  #98  
Old October 5th, 2008, 03:24 PM
Nadir_E
 
Posts: n/a
See what happens when you hesitate, Greg??

Whip out your plastic and buy! So what if you can't use exactly as you wish right now - it's WAY better than just having pictures in your hands and lust in your heart.

-n
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  #99  
Old October 5th, 2008, 04:03 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
KI6CQL
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,287
Well, if it is a 1966 it may be worth a bit. Not sure if it's worth $5k+ like he is asking (even here in CA).

However, it looks to me from the crappy pics that it doesn't have the push-pin hole so most likely a 1974.

IIRC the original price posted on Gunsamerica was ~$1700-1800. That would definitely be worth it.
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  #100  
Old October 6th, 2008, 07:37 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
K6YJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by greghirst
The seller posted the rifle and same pics on Gunbroker for alot more $$.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=112141990


LOL.

You missed your chance.

Again.

Sucka.
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