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  #101  
Old October 6th, 2008, 07:41 AM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Location: Torrance, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greghirst
IIRC the original price posted on Gunsamerica was ~$1700-1800. That would definitely be worth it.

I think the original asking price on GA was $1790.

"Definitely" worth it? You didn't think so a few days ago.

Sucka.
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  #102  
Old October 6th, 2008, 10:15 AM
blue blue is offline
Bill Gill, aka chump hater
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 1,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSQ
WTF??!!

You mean to say that in all of your time sitting around the campfire with your old family friend, Jeff Cooper, he never impressed upon you the supremacy of the long gun and the distinction between full-power rifles and battle carbines?

Or is it that you know Cooper's position, but you dismiss it for your own reasons?

Please, explain.

Well, I've never sat around a campfire discussing long guns with Jeff Cooper. My experiences with Col. Cooper revolved strictly around handguns and his Principles of Personal Defense. Although I'm sure he'd argue that the HK USP .40 S&W should be ditched for a 1911 .45 ACP.

Rifles in general have never excited much passion in me. Certainly not the passion that John and you, Jack, obviously have. But I will admit that those telescoping stock HK93's that Greg linked have me thinking....

My "what does 'battle carbine' really mean to you" comments are more from the standpoint of....is it just an academic question to be bantered back & forth on a BB or based on the wisdom of others such as Jeff Cooper? I mean, shit, have you ever seen anything beyond your front sights besides paper targets or steel plates (or the occasional bird)?
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2004 D2

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  #103  
Old October 6th, 2008, 10:58 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,287
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
I think the original asking price on GA was $1790.

"Definitely" worth it? You didn't think so a few days ago.

Sucka.

Unfortunately you are correct.

Until you told me otherwise, I didn't know the HK41 was Cali-legal. As soon as I checked again, the HK was off GA.

I should never underestimate the bizarreness of California gun laws.
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  #104  
Old October 7th, 2008, 10:48 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
My "what does 'battle carbine' really mean to you" comments are more from the standpoint of....is it just an academic question to be bantered back & forth on a BB or based on the wisdom of others such as Jeff Cooper?

The sort of subjects addressed by Jeff Cooper like the distinction between the full-power rifle and the battle carbine and the development of modern pistol technique are for people like us, largely academic, until all of a sudden they became terribly practical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
I mean, shit, have you ever seen anything beyond your front sights besides paper targets or steel plates (or the occasional bird)?

The targets I've accquired break down something like this,

-birds: hundreds if not thousands
-paper targets or steel plates: a few hundred
-people: one

I've never shot anyone.
I assume that's what you're getting at.
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  #105  
Old November 6th, 2008, 08:29 AM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Location: Torrance, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greghirst
Well, if it is a 1966 it may be worth a bit.

Greg, here's your dream HK41:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=115131328

Not my thing, but you can see that people are all over it. It's going for about twice what an HK91 goes for. Here's an HK91 from the same seller:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=115131984

I'd rather have the HK91.
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  #106  
Old November 6th, 2008, 02:07 PM
parantaeyang parantaeyang is offline
Won Park
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ventura, California
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so... you can't buy those in California. Correct?
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  #107  
Old November 6th, 2008, 02:41 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Re-read the thread.
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  #108  
Old November 6th, 2008, 05:08 PM
parantaeyang parantaeyang is offline
Won Park
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ventura, California
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pre-ban, guns that are only legal if you had it and registered before certain dates but can't buy now, folding stock, fixed magazines, title 1, button hole, no pistol grip, same rule don't apply because of caliber, HK91 vs HK911, % of USA parts, upper with CA legal bottom........

For someone like me who is clueless regarding guns, it is just too much informations and rules to hedge through.

I will try to read the thread and see if I can figure it out :p
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  #109  
Old November 6th, 2008, 05:23 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
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The HK91 is banned by name (manufacturer and model) in California. You can't transfer an HK91 in California, regardless of its configuration.

The HK41 you can purchase in California, but only if you fit the bullet button or similar device that "fixes" the magazine. The HK41 is similar to "off-list lowers" in the AR world. It's not banned by name, as there are only a few hundred in the world and most people don't even know what it is. You cannot transfer a factory HK41 in California because it's banned by type (pistol grip, flash suppressor, detachable magazine, semi-automatic action, bayonet lug, grenade-launching ring, etc., the HK41 basically has it all from the factory). But you could transfer a modified HK41 in California if you "fix" the magazine by fitting a bullet button and you limit yourself to 10-shot mags.

I recommend a Kel-Tec or Mini-14 if you want a carbine. If you want a rifle, one of the M1A variants would probably suit you. All of these are self-loading weapons with detachable magazines, but they don't have the evil flash suppressor, bayonet lug, and so on. Those are largely cosmetic features and not having them doesn't diminish a weapon's effectiveness in any real way.

The SL6 and SL7 are still legal for transfer in California, but they are very expensive and they're quirky/weirdo weapons. Magazines for these weapons are relatively rare and hard to locate. When you can locate them, they are quite expensive.

I think I like the lowly Kel-Tec the best if you want a blaster. You see used ones on Calguns for $400 because people are dumping their Kel-Tecs for off-list ARs. They would rather have the cosmetics than the function.
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  #110  
Old November 6th, 2008, 10:12 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,287
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
Greg, here's your dream HK41:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=115131328

Not my thing, but you can see that people are all over it. It's going for about twice what an HK91 goes for. Here's an HK91 from the same seller:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=115131984

I'd rather have the HK91.

That is sweet.

Now all I need is 4 grand.
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  #111  
Old November 6th, 2008, 10:22 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,287
Quote:
Originally Posted by parantaeyang
pre-ban, guns that are only legal if you had it and registered before certain dates but can't buy now, folding stock, fixed magazines, title 1, button hole, no pistol grip, same rule don't apply because of caliber, HK91 vs HK911, % of USA parts, upper with CA legal bottom........

For someone like me who is clueless regarding guns, it is just too much informations and rules to hedge through.

I will try to read the thread and see if I can figure it out :p

Won, if you had a legal residency address in AZ (and could store your weapon there) the HK91 is a no-brainer.

The attraction of that 1966 HK41 is it's very limited production, it's off-list so OK to own in CA, and the 1966 version still has the push-pin.
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  #112  
Old November 6th, 2008, 10:46 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
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Here's a decent HK770 that just went up on GA, Won:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/958043542...tras.htm?wl=1#
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  #113  
Old November 7th, 2008, 07:04 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greghirst
Here's a decent HK770 that just went up on GA, Won:

Aaaacchhh!
No such thing.
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  #114  
Old November 7th, 2008, 07:58 AM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
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Jack is right. There is no such thing as a decent HK770. That's because all HK770s are Superfly TNT Armageddon Kick Ass.

Greg, if that HK770 catches your eye, you might want to jump on it. The standard HK770 is an AW under the California AW definition. It has a flash suppressor and detachable magazine. You can't buy a standard HK770. The same is true for the HK630 and HK940. All of these weapons have flash suppressors.

That particular HK770 on GA is an older model with steel charging handle and no flash suppressor. There are some of these floating around here and there, but they're relatively rare and difficult to obtain.
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  #115  
Old November 7th, 2008, 06:46 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
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Think about that, Greg.

Would you rather have this Logan's Run disco boogie thing:


or

would you like to imagine yourself at Monte Casino with this bitchin far-more-functional-than-the-original descendent of the Gew.43?



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  #116  
Old November 7th, 2008, 08:15 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSQ
or

Or?

As in one or the other?

Why must it be one or the other? Why not score both? They're both really nice. And they're both worth owning and shooting.

One day I will score that Jägermeister HK770. I'm still pissed I didn't buy one when they were available. My HK770 is so plain in comparison:


It's a face only a mother could love. Oh it's ugly all right. But it's not nearly ugly enough. I must have that Jagermeister HK770 one day. That fish-scale checkering alongside the plastic trigger guard, schnabel forend, and hog's back stock with square cheekpiece are calling me. Big time. If I were ever fortunate enough to score one, I would even get one of those ridiculous 8X56 telescopes with no. 1 post reticle to go with it.

I'm hitting Angeles this Sunday. This HK770 talk is getting me pumped up. I haven't shot my HK770 in quite a few years. I might have to dust it off and shoot it alongside my HK43. We'll see. I don't want to dilute my fun time with my HK43.

Incidentally, there's an SL7 on GB:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=115066744

It's not mint. And there's no HK05 mount with it. But the current bid is only $755. Not bad at all. And unlike Herr Deutschland über alles with his Tasco of Germany binoculars, the seller at least knows how to orient the pushpins properly:

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  #117  
Old November 7th, 2008, 08:37 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
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Oh shit.

I was Googling for SL7 pics and came across a pic of my SL7 on SniperCentral:

https://www.snipercentral.com/forums...dce77fafde615f

This is a pic I hadn't seen before, as the seller didn't list this pic when sold my rifle on Calguns.

It's looking very ugly there.
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  #118  
Old November 7th, 2008, 09:24 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee

Incidentally, there's an SL7 on GB:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=115066744

It's not mint. And there's no HK05 mount with it. But the current bid is only $755. Not bad at all. And unlike Herr Deutschland über alles with his Tasco of Germany binoculars, the seller at least knows how to orient the pushpins properly:


From the gunbroker ad:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sssmitty
Most of these scratch's can be made to go away with very little effort otherwise this is ONE HELL OF A SPORTING/BATTLE RIFLE WITH HK 91 INTERNALS that will accept HK 91 magazines.

I'm pretty damn sure the SL7 doesn't take G3/HK91 magazines.
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  #119  
Old November 7th, 2008, 10:06 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
Yeah, homeboy's clueless. This is another one:

Quote:
This rifle is still available new in Europe but importation to the U.S. was discontinued in the 1980's because of exchange rates causing the price of this rifle to be out of line (TO MUCH QUALITY).

The SL7 is discontinued.

And I love the TO MUCH QUALITY bit. The reason HK stopped importing the SL7 was because it didn't sell. Why pay up the ass for this pile when the HK91 was so much more sinister-looking and M1A was available for half the price.

Still, $775 ain't bad at all. I hope one of you guys gets it.
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  #120  
Old March 25th, 2009, 06:50 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
I haven't updated this thread in a while.

My Kel-Tec has had problems.

A few months ago, I broke a firing pin:


I was at Angeles while shooting with some friends, and I got a light hit. Then another. That's not right. So I checked the bolt group and sure enough the firing pin was broken.

I'm glad I checked too, because a broken firing pin is one of the best ways to get a kaboom. Most self-loading rifles are designed so that the firing pin cannot reach the primer if the weapon is out of battery. If the firing pin is broken, it's possible for the broken tip to seize within the bolt head and fire the weapon before it locks. This results in a kaboom.

I called Kel-Tec about my broken firing pin, and Kel-Tec sent out a replacement:


This replacement is a better design:


Note the gradual taper on the replacement rather than the 90-degree transitions on the broken pin. I'm surprised Kel-Tec even used the squared design in the first place, because these designs are known failure points for firing pins. I'm confident this replacement design will last, so it's not a big deal to me.

Last weekend, I had a catastrophic failure on my Kel-Tec. The rear of the receiver broke off:


Obviously, that's not good. The weapon didn't kaboom or anything. The Kel-Tec's Stoner bolt head locks into the barrel extension rather than the receiver, so the polymer receiver isn't under structural load as on some other weapons. But this breakage does suck.

Here's a view of the rear of the broken receiver:


And here's a view of the rear wall that broke off:


That pic isn't very good, but you can see the impact marks from the rear of the bolt carrier. The center depression is from the floating firing pin.

I'm not sure if this problem is common or not. I haven't seen any mention of such a problem on the Kel-Tec board, so perhaps it might not be common. I'm not sure.

I called Kel-Tec and they had me send back my carbine for examination and repair. I'm sure they'll repair my carbine under their lifetime warranty. I'll probably get a new receiver and the rest of the gun will be what I started with.

I'm really bummed out this happened. I love this gun. It's a piece of shit, but it shoots really nicely. I can't believe how low the perceived recoil is for such a lightweight weapon.

I'll let you guys know when I receive the gun back from Kel-Tec. We'll see if the receiver design remains unchanged, or if Kel-Tec reinforced the rear of the receiver somehow. Frankly, I would probably feel better if Kel-Tec didn't reinforce the rear area because it would make me more likely to believe that my breakage was a fluke rather than a regular occurrence.
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  #121  
Old March 25th, 2009, 08:20 PM
greghirst greghirst is offline
Greg Hirst
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,287
I'm not saying the Mini-14 is bomb-proof, but I doubt I'll have a broken firing pin and pieces falling off it after a few thousand rounds.

BTW-I ordered a factory wooden stock to replace to rubber over-molded Hogue stock on my NRA. I'll take some pics when it arrives.
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  #122  
Old March 25th, 2009, 08:42 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
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Sweet. Post up the pics when you get the wood. That Mini should be very sweet with the wood.

I'm sure you can sell that Hogue stock if you want to. I think a lot of the Mini guys are dying for that stock.
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  #123  
Old March 27th, 2009, 01:09 PM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by greghirst
I'm not saying the Mini-14 is bomb-proof, but I doubt I'll have a broken firing pin and pieces falling off it after a few thousand rounds.

BTW-I ordered a factory wooden stock to replace to rubber over-molded Hogue stock on my NRA. I'll take some pics when it arrives.

This is probably true.

My extractor failures were a known problem on the 1st gen Mini-14 and they changed the design immediately. As far as I know all of the post 180 series Minis are pretty robust.
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  #124  
Old March 28th, 2009, 01:54 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
I think the Mini-14 is solid. I think the only real gripes on the Mini-14 are the proprietary magazines and the lack of accuracy. The accuracy doesn't bother me so much as the magazines. If the Mini-14 took AR mags, I would probably own one.

Speaking of which, peep this:


It looks like a politically correct AR. I'm not sure how the bolt group is propelled forward, as there is no AR buffer tube emanating straight backward from the lower. The bolt carrier would also have to be shorter than the standard AR carrier.

The magazine well is very short in height. In fact, it looks so short that I have to wonder how well the AR mags are held.

This is an interesting design. You would have the ability to use widely available and cheap AR magazines. You would presumably have the same level of reliability and durability as the AR. You would have the ability to use small AR spare parts (the small parts are really the ones that break). But the rifle would be California-legal (without flash suppressor and bayonet lug).

I'm digging the shorty buttstock.

Here's a shot of the port side of the receiver:


It looks as though the rear pushpin has been replaced with a screw.

Magazine release is the AR type.

I don't know where the safety is. If this thing had a tang safety, I would be blown away.

I'm digging this little blaster.
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  #125  
Old April 14th, 2009, 02:02 PM
johnlee johnlee is offline
John Lee
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 16,056
I just got my Kel-Tec back.

Or, rather, I just got a Kel-Tec back. Kel-Tec sent me a completely different rifle (but with the same serial number as my original). I thought Kel-Tec would replace the receiver and send back my original stuff, but Kel-Tec just sent back a new rifle.

I thought about selling it because it's brand new and these are hot right now, but decided to keep it.
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