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  #1  
Old February 28th, 2007, 10:43 AM
nosivad_bor nosivad_bor is offline
Rob Davison
 
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Secrets of universe eyed as collider core installed

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070228/..._universe_dc_3

Quote:
A huge magnet, weighing 1,920 tonnes or the equivalent of five jumbo jets and a key element in the program, was lowered into a vast cavern 100 meters below ground at the multinational center,
CERN, on the Swiss-French border near Geneva.

"We think this project is going to uncover things we cannot dream of at the moment," said Professor Jos Engelen, Chief Scientific Officer of CERN, the 26-nation European Organization for Nuclear Research.

Some of his colleagues say the experiment, smashing particles together at high speed in a Large Hadron Collider (LHC), may bring new knowledge such as the possible existence of multiple dimensions beyond the four of traditional physics -- width, length, height and time.

Others speak, if cautiously, of venturing into realms long regarded as those of speculative science fiction -- multiple universes, parallel worlds, black holes in space linking different levels of existence.

There is more in the link.

I have this weird feeling like this is how our own universe was created. The secret to a Bing Bang, would then Man be God?


Quote:
Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design. Your friends, up there in Geneva, are walking into a trap, as is your 26 nation fleet. It was *I* who allowed CERN to know the location of the shield generator magnet. It is quite safe from your pitiful little band. Oh, I'm afraid the collider will be quite operational when your friends arrive.



-rob
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  #2  
Old February 28th, 2007, 10:50 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nosivad_bor
I have this weird feeling like this is how our own universe was created. The secret to a Bing Bang, would then Man be God?


Even if we were to discover the secrets of the Big Bang, would that really answer the big questions?

For example, the evolutionists claim that they have disproved Creation. The evolutionists claim that man evolved from ape and ape evolved from lower mammals. This may be so, but does that explanation really explain anything? Where did the lower mammals come from? Where did the single-celled organisms come from? Does life suddenly appear from nothing? Where did the universe come from? It's no answer to say the universe came from the Big Bang, for what caused the Big Bang?

I'm all for scientific research. However, it seems to me that greater scientific understanding just leads to more questions. The big questions are never truly answered. Science is more a means than an end in itself.

Great link. Thanks for posting it up.
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  #3  
Old February 28th, 2007, 05:14 PM
craigc
 
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yes great article - will be interesting if they can finally prove whether or not that Higgs Boson extists??

If they can - then it will confirm some of the current theories out there... but if they can't find it or observe it.... then a lot of theories are wrong! which means they have no idea what's going on!

it certainly be interesting to see what it unfolds!
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  #4  
Old February 28th, 2007, 07:45 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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"The researches of many commentators have already thrown much darkness on the subject, and it is probable that if they continue we shall soon know nothing at all about it."

--Mark Twain
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  #5  
Old February 28th, 2007, 09:23 PM
nosivad_bor nosivad_bor is offline
Rob Davison
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
Even if we were to discover the secrets of the Big Bang, would that really answer the big questions?

For example, the evolutionists claim that they have disproved Creation. The evolutionists claim that man evolved from ape and ape evolved from lower mammals. This may be so, but does that explanation really explain anything? Where did the lower mammals come from? Where did the single-celled organisms come from? Does life suddenly appear from nothing? Where did the universe come from? It's no answer to say the universe came from the Big Bang, for what caused the Big Bang?

I'm all for scientific research. However, it seems to me that greater scientific understanding just leads to more questions. The big questions are never truly answered. Science is more a means than an end in itself.

Great link. Thanks for posting it up.

To know that something can be done is in itself answer enough for some people. What makes God "God" is not that he created this universe, but that he created the first and depending on your views that could be interpreted as having made all of them.

Not related but just as facinating is the mind of Brian Tammet:

PART 1


PART 2


There is a ton more about Daniel on youtube
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  #6  
Old March 1st, 2007, 02:33 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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I'm not even sure I believe in God. And still I don't believe that science alone is the answer to our questions. At least not the big questions.

I watched those 60 Minutes clips and I was really moved by Brain Man's story. I especially like the fact that he doesn't want to be some "performing seal" for the crowds. He seems like a really likable person.

Great clips.

Sucka, you're on a roll.
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  #7  
Old March 1st, 2007, 04:12 PM
nosivad_bor nosivad_bor is offline
Rob Davison
 
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I'm fairly agnostic myself , but I most certainly leave room for God to exist. Prevailing Big Bang theory starts with a singularity, most scholars don't even bother asking where the singularity came from or what was prior to it exploded, that's where God fits in for me.
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  #8  
Old March 1st, 2007, 08:13 PM
nosivad_bor nosivad_bor is offline
Rob Davison
 
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Okay, I'm really geeking out on this ATLAS prodject.

I love the music on the first video's, straigh off of the Classical Thunder TimeLife CD, lol

Episode 1


Episode 2-1


Episode 2-2


Very quick time lapse of construction


Last, a ncie video on the people and process


I'll stop now
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  #9  
Old March 1st, 2007, 08:43 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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  #10  
Old April 5th, 2007, 07:59 AM
nosivad_bor nosivad_bor is offline
Rob Davison
 
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070405/...ence_cern_dc_1

Set back in the ATLAS project at Cern.



Particles will be smashed together at high speed in a 27-km (17-mile) channel through a tunnel, aiming to replicate in miniature the Big Bang fireball which scientists say happened some 15 billion years ago and created the universe.

In a statement Fermilab said it had failed to take into account "asymmetric loads" in the engineering design.

"...the high pressure test of the Fermilab-built inner triplet failed dramatically in the LHC tunnel with a loud 'bang' and a cloud of dust," said Pier Oddone, director of the Chicago-based Fermilab, funded by the U.S.
Department of Energy.

"What the analysis shows so far is that something extraordinarily simple was missed in the design...In this case, we are dumbfounded that we missed some very simple balance of forces."

Physicists from CERN and Fermilab were working together to redesign and repair the inner triplet magnets and will conduct another pressure test on June 1, a statement said.
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  #11  
Old May 26th, 2007, 07:30 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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  #12  
Old May 27th, 2007, 08:28 AM
JSQ JSQ is offline
Jack Quinlan
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This isn't a joke.
I actually own this album:


http://mchawking.com/


I'm certainly not trying to belittle Hawking. I just think these songs are hilarious. Obviously you have to take an interest in his work and understand what makes the principles that he elucidates controversial in order to appreciate his work as gangsta mc. Of course, I got the album as a gift from some friends at Cal Tech.

Last edited by JSQ : May 27th, 2007 at 08:31 AM.
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  #13  
Old May 28th, 2007, 07:28 PM
nosivad_bor nosivad_bor is offline
Rob Davison
 
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This isn't making fun of hawking as much as it is making him a bad ass. The guy is about as physically crippled as you can get yet he is cool and hip and has been for years. he is main stream and respected, to make fun only goes to show how he is viewed as just regular guy.

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  #14  
Old May 29th, 2007, 10:43 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Please. Rookies.

Here's the coolest mainstream Stephen Hawking moment:

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  #15  
Old May 29th, 2007, 10:56 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Check out this vid:


It's part five of a lecture Hawking gave at Cal. It's a very interesting lecture.

At the end, some of the bigger questions are thrown at Hawking. Notice how he can't answer them. Note also he tries to define the universe into existence.
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  #16  
Old May 29th, 2007, 11:17 AM
thomaskimura thomaskimura is offline
Thomas Kimura
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nosivad_bor
This isn't making fun of hawking as much as it is making him a bad ass. The guy is about as physically crippled as you can get yet he is cool and hip and has been for years. he is main stream and respected, to make fun only goes to show how he is viewed as just regular guy.


I just noticed in the last second of this clip, in the overlap into the next scene of the football game: Brown University vs. the Board of Education. Pretty funny.
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  #17  
Old May 29th, 2007, 07:40 PM
nosivad_bor nosivad_bor is offline
Rob Davison
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
Check out this vid:


It's part five of a lecture Hawking gave at Cal. It's a very interesting lecture.

At the end, some of the bigger questions are thrown at Hawking. Notice how he can't answer them. Note also he tries to define the universe into existence.


John, you might be interested in the brane theory.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronom..._010413-1.html
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  #18  
Old May 30th, 2007, 06:36 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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I read that bit about brane theory and I must say that I do not understand it. It's too abstract for my little brain. I don't understand the Big Bang Theory either.
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  #19  
Old May 30th, 2007, 09:10 PM
DJ Menasco DJ Menasco is offline
DJ Menasco
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlee
I don't understand the Big Bang Theory either.


Hit this book up.



Its not your typical science tome. It does a fantastic job explaining the very questions asked (and answered) in the lecture you previously posted. You don't need to know quantum mechanics or even Newtonian physcis to pick up what Hawking is putting down. The only math you'll need to know is serendipitously the only in the book: E = mc^2.

It also has a blurb about a few of the greats, e.g. evidently Mr. Isaac Newton was a real dick head.

Give it a try.
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  #20  
Old May 30th, 2007, 10:07 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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OK, I just spent the last three hours watching "The Elegant Universe", a three-part Nova special on the laws of the universe.

The three episodes are broken down into 15 parts on YouTube due to length. However, I recommend watching all 15 parts for foundation. There is some repetition in the three Nova episodes, but that's a good thing because these are complex ideas, at least to me. At the end they discuss the methods of the particle colliders and how they pertain to reality. Check it out.

I really liked these episodes. The episodes were dumbed down enough for me to follow them. Furthermore, I was humbled not only by the physicists' brain power but also by their admissions that science alone does not provide all of the answers, and that theoretical physics may be as much philosophy as it is science.


Intro:




Episode 1 - Einstein's Dream:
















Episode 2 - String's the Thing:
















Episode 3 - Welcome to the 11th Dimension:














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  #21  
Old May 31st, 2007, 10:08 AM
nosivad_bor nosivad_bor is offline
Rob Davison
 
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Thanks for gathering those together. I'll watch them tonight.

I have "a brief history of time" and "the universe in a a nutshell" books gathering dust I'll send them out to you John. I recommend trying to read each book as quickly as possible. Myself I read them over three evenings. Once you put the books down its hard to jump back in after you've had time to forget the nuances.

Rob
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  #22  
Old May 31st, 2007, 10:21 AM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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Oh shit. Please send them out. I'll read them.
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  #23  
Old May 31st, 2007, 11:11 AM
dannydisco dannydisco is offline
Daniel Long
 
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Best class I took in college (all of 4 weeks ago) was Modern Physics (Specific & General Relativity, Quantum Physics, and a little astronomy). It was taught by Dr. Ingo Wiedenhover who was very good. As a mechanical engineering student it was basically a worthless elective for my major, but it was the class I learned the most in.

Quantum physics (iddy bitty small stuff) is mathematically difficult, but theoretically it's easy in that everything happens at a level that humans can not visually witness so you just go with it. Relativity on the other hand takes a leap of faith. The fact I (nor anyone here) have not experienced length contraction or time dilation means that it's hard to believe. You can say that you believe that an object travelling near the speed of light does lengthen, but there is a mental leap to saying that you KNOW that it happens.

In particular the day spent as a "field trip" at the particle accelerator next door was great, although very anti-climatic to see tests being run. No bangs or booms, just lights and screens changing.

Edit: Seeing as how someone mentioned the infamous E=m*c^2. Ole' Dr. Ingo took great issue with that as it is an incorrect equation, the full equations are:

Total energy of anything
E(total) = E(kinetic) + mc^2 = (mc^2) * Gamma
Where u = velocity and c = speed of light (~3 x 10^8 m/s)

Here's the trick: Gamma = 1 / [1 - (u^2 / c^2)] so at "very low" velocities (u/c)^2 ~ 0, thus Gamma roughly equals 1 AT small ratio's of c. As such mc^2 divided by a number VERY close to one pretty much equals to mc^2, hence the common equation as it is the only one that applies to anything we see other than in the world's largest accelerators.

Another interesting note comes from the relatively well known fact that 99% of physicists believe that matter cannot exist at the speed of light. This again comes from the E(total) equation, as u goes to c you end up with Gamma = 1 / [1- (c^2/c^2)] which equals to mc^2/0 which is an undefined equation hence the inability to exist @ the speed of light.

The craziest thing about this all is that Einstein theorized all of this using his famous "gedankenexperiments" or "thought experiments". He physically proved very little of his postulates, instead the rest of the world had to catch up and prove them for him. And be glad they did as our GPS's, among other things, would not work without taking into account relativity.
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  #24  
Old June 4th, 2007, 11:18 AM
nosivad_bor nosivad_bor is offline
Rob Davison
 
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Watched the full series last night J-money and it was pretty good.

Series one and two were ok, stuff I've been exposed. They seemed to bash Einstien as a washup after general relatively and never mentioned his other shit like E=mc2. That pissed me off a little.

Series three started getting very good. I was overall very entertained.

That nerd that figured out the M theory frightens me.

I think you are going to love these books I'm sending, they let you sink your teeth into the actual theories here. They glazed over a lot to bring you up to speed with the most current stuff. The journey is fun to read.
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  #25  
Old June 4th, 2007, 01:19 PM
johnlee johnlee is online now
John Lee
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I had always thought that E=mc2 was a part of Einstein's General Theory of Relativity?

Is E=mc2 something else?
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